Episode 212
Turning Dirt into Millions: The Real Estate Playbook for Success with Sophie Baran
Episode 212 of The Business Development Podcast features a conversation with Sophie Baran, a rising leader in real estate development and private equity. As the General Partner and CEO of Bear Capital, Sophie has managed over $250 million in capital expenditures, playing a pivotal role in shaping Alberta’s land development landscape. She shares her insider knowledge on transforming raw land into thriving communities, the challenges of raising capital, and why Western Canada is a prime market for real estate investment. With a background in corporate finance and leadership, Sophie reveals how she leveraged her expertise to build a diversified investment model, balancing high-growth opportunities with strategic risk management.
In this inspiring discussion, Kelly Kennedy and Sophie explore the mindset shifts required to scale in a competitive industry, the importance of resilience in entrepreneurship, and why she believes now is the time to invest in real estate. She also shares the personal turning point that led her to leave a high-level leadership role and bet on herself as an entrepreneur. Whether you're an investor, a business leader, or simply interested in how rising industry leaders make bold moves, this episode delivers valuable insights from one of real estate’s most dynamic emerging voices.
Key Takeaways:
1. Believing in yourself is the foundation for taking bold steps in business and entrepreneurship.
2. Hard economic times create opportunities for those who are resilient and willing to adapt.
3. Diversifying revenue streams reduces risk and builds long-term business stability.
4. Raising capital successfully depends on credibility, trust, and a clear value proposition.
5. The best markets for investment are often the ones that others overlook or hesitate to enter.
6. Strategic partnerships, including Indigenous collaborations, can create both financial success and lasting community impact.
7. Waiting for the perfect moment often leads to missed opportunities—taking action is what matters most.
8. Leadership requires making tough decisions and stepping outside of comfort zones.
9. Big ideas only succeed when paired with strong execution, planning, and financial discipline.
10. The greatest obstacles in business are often self-imposed—removing doubt and taking the first step is the key to success.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Bare Capital
- Landrex
- Capital Business Development
- Enbridge
- Canadian Western Bank
- TAG Developments
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Transcript
Welcome to episode 212 of the Business Development Podcast.
Speaker A:And today we are chatting with Sophie Barron.
Speaker A:As the general partner and CEO of Bear Capital, Sophie has played a pivotal role in shaping Alberta's land development landscape, managing over 250 million in capital expenditures and revolutionizing how real estate businesses grow.
Speaker A:If you've ever wondered what it takes to develop raw land into thriving communities or how to navigate the complex world of real estate estate, stick with us.
Speaker A:This episode is for you.
Speaker B:The great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years.
Speaker B:Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal.
Speaker B:And we couldn't agree more.
Speaker B:This is the Business Development Podcast based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and broadcasting to the world.
Speaker B:You'll get expert business development advice, tips and experiences and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs and business development reps.
Speaker B:You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business brought to you by Capital Business Development capitalbd ca.
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker B:Welcome to the Business Development Podcast.
Speaker B:And now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.
Speaker A:Hello.
Speaker A:Welcome to episode 212 of the Business Business Development Podcast.
Speaker A:And for today, I bring you an absolute rock star, Sophie Baron.
Speaker A:Sophie is the General Partner and CEO of Bear Capital.
Speaker A:It's a formidable force in Alberta's real estate and finance sectors.
Speaker A:With over two decades of experience, she has adeptly managed operating budgets, spearheaded substantial transactions, and overseen the development of hundreds of acres of raw land.
Speaker A:Her career highlights include managing over 250 million in capital expenditures and negotiating complex deals that have consistently resulted in accredited structures.
Speaker A:Prior to founding Bear Capital, Sophie served as the President of Landrex, where she transformed the company from a land development firm into a dynamic real estate enterprise, solidifying its prominence in the industry through strategic vision and revenue diversification.
Speaker A:At Bear Capital, Sophie continues to drive business development and acquisitions with unparalleled expertise.
Speaker A:Her talent for identifying lucrative opportunities and optimizing corporate structures has ensured the sustainable long term growth and success of the firm.
Speaker A:Sophie's track record of achievement and passion for innovation are not just shaping the future of Alberta's real estate market, they are revolutionizing it.
Speaker A:In a landscape that demands foresight and adaptability, Sophie Barron stands out as a leader who is not only meeting the challenges of today, but also setting the standards for tomorrow.
Speaker A:Sophie, it's an honor to have you on the show.
Speaker C:That was quite the mouthful.
Speaker C:I love it.
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker A:Thank you for the work you're doing and I'm really excited to chat with you today.
Speaker A:Because I don't think we've really had a land developer on this show yet.
Speaker A:You know, I could be wrong.
Speaker A:You're my 100th guest, but I really don't think so.
Speaker C:Well, I love being the first land developer.
Speaker C:That makes me so happy.
Speaker C:I also love that I'm the 100th guest, and for sure, that's going on my profile.
Speaker C:Just so you know.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's pretty cool.
Speaker A:It's pretty cool.
Speaker A:It's cool on both fronts, actually.
Speaker A:I still find it hard to believe that at this point, we're at 100 guests.
Speaker A:Like, feels like yesterday.
Speaker A:And, you know, in some ways, it has been.
Speaker A:The show at this point is only two years old.
Speaker A:So we're just celebrating.
Speaker A:Probably by the time this show comes out, we're actually celebrating the second anniversary of the business development podcast, which I could have never imagined.
Speaker C:That's amazing.
Speaker C:I love that.
Speaker C:I love that, you know, you have an idea and you have a story, and then two years later, like, here you are, like, I knew I had a good idea.
Speaker A:Well, okay, I'll tell you.
Speaker A:I'll tell you briefly.
Speaker A:Since we are at the second anniversary of the business development podcast, we'll just chat about it really quick.
Speaker A:So basically, when I started this show or when I was making the idea of what the heck I wanted to do, it was early.
Speaker A: It was late: Speaker A:I knew it's like, okay, the world is like, you have to have an outward face.
Speaker A:What are you going to do?
Speaker A:And this is really.
Speaker A:I think before a lot of people realized it, I think everyone was feeling that, like, we need to do something, whether that be like a YouTube channel, like, some type of information out into the world.
Speaker A:And for me, I'd listen to podcasts forever.
Speaker A:Like, I'm an.
Speaker A:I'm a longtime podcast advocate.
Speaker A: ened to two a day since about: Speaker A:Like, I don't know if I can do this.
Speaker A:And so I sat on it, sat on it, sat on it, finally ordered equipment and put it in the corner of my bedroom.
Speaker A:My.
Speaker A:My fiance looked at me after about a month of it, sitting in the corner of my bedroom, said, kelly, do something with that or sell it, because that is a gigantic waste of money.
Speaker C:Good.
Speaker A:And that night, I went down into the basement and I recorded trailer episode for the business development podcast, and the rest is history.
Speaker C:That's awesome.
Speaker C:That's such a great story.
Speaker C:Why did you go, because there's so many different podcasts out there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I listen to.
Speaker C:I've just started listening to podcasts.
Speaker C:It wasn't actually something that I did a lot in the past, so I just started listening to them as I go for my walks or my runs or whatever it is that I'm doing.
Speaker C:So what made you decide to go down the business road?
Speaker C:Because you can.
Speaker C:I listen to all sorts of different podcasts.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Whether it's music, entertainment, news, business, family, I go through the full gamut.
Speaker C:So why did you choose business?
Speaker A:Well, I think, number one, because I operate a business development firm.
Speaker A:And so for me, it made sense to be able to speak to my expertise, to speak to what I actually know and be able to showcase that, I think, to the world was the initial idea.
Speaker A:But what I also realized, Sophie, was there was nothing out there.
Speaker A:Like, for business development people.
Speaker A:There was nothing.
Speaker A:It's been a completely overlooked industry.
Speaker A:It's like, sales is good, marketing's good.
Speaker A:But like.
Speaker A:Like business development specifically.
Speaker A:Completely overlooked.
Speaker A: So overlooked that in: Speaker A:And at that point, it was like, okay, like, I have to do this.
Speaker A:Like, if this is available, there is no choice.
Speaker A:It is happening.
Speaker C:It is so true.
Speaker C:It is like the business side of things.
Speaker C:Like, you can get business books and you can get all these types of things, but in terms of, like, transitioning it from, like, you know, our.
Speaker C:How do I say this?
Speaker C:Our predecessors of business leaders loved a good business book.
Speaker C:And don't get me wrong, I do too.
Speaker C:But I'm also, like, my life is really busy.
Speaker C:I'm on the go all the time.
Speaker C: and: Speaker C:And reading requires you to sit in a chair and have that free time.
Speaker C:So I love that.
Speaker C:This is, like, gives me the.
Speaker C:The benefit of a book, but in an audio version.
Speaker A:Well, thank you.
Speaker A:Yeah, you know, I've heard.
Speaker A:I've heard a lot of people tell me it's like a lecture in a half hour or a lecture in 40 minutes.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's like if.
Speaker A:If you.
Speaker A:If you read a book, you're probably investing four, five, six hours into a book to learn, you know, one concept.
Speaker A:Because most books are trying to pound one concept into your brain.
Speaker A:You need to do this.
Speaker A:But it's like with every single business development episode, we do, sure, we repeat concepts, but usually we have a Lot of new concepts or a lot of new ideas in every episode.
Speaker A:Plus, with every single expert guest like you, we bring on.
Speaker A:We bring in a whole nother level of expertise that, you know, you wouldn't get anywhere else.
Speaker A:And so, like, on a certain level, you can cram a lot of information by listening to business podcasts over reading just a single book.
Speaker C:Oh, and if you think about, like, through my business career, like, what are the most salient messages that I've ever received in my business career?
Speaker C:Have been through business partners that I've spoken to, that I've talked to, that have shared their experience like that.
Speaker C:Those are the messages that sounded with me, and those are the lessons that I took, and I carried them through business.
Speaker C:So I like that you don't get that in a book.
Speaker C:And I'm not dismissing books, because I do.
Speaker C:I love myself a good book, but you don't get the candid perspective.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's funny.
Speaker A:I actually read more books now than I ever have because we interview a lot of authors, and I feel like.
Speaker A:I feel like I have no choice.
Speaker A:Like, I feel like on a certain level, it is inauthentic to interview an author without at least reading their book, and you see it everywhere.
Speaker A:So I read a lot of books now, Sophie.
Speaker A:I'm probably up to, like, four to five a month.
Speaker A:It's getting a little bit bonkers.
Speaker A:I really need to, like, tone it back a little bit, but.
Speaker A:Yeah, but.
Speaker A:But on the other side, I completely agree.
Speaker A:It's like, I like reading books.
Speaker A:What I don't like about books is the time commitment required to read them.
Speaker C:It makes.
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker C:I don't have the time in my life right now to sit down and do it.
Speaker C:And times, like, I miss it if I like.
Speaker C:I love all types of books, but I've always loved, like, a good story.
Speaker C:Like, I love a good underdog story based on a true story.
Speaker C:Like, I love all that stuff.
Speaker C:So it makes me a little bit sad that I don't have the time to read as much as what I used to.
Speaker C:But, I mean, a good book can transform you into a place that television cannot.
Speaker A:Totally.
Speaker A:Totally.
Speaker A:And, you know, like, my solution for that for a number of years was audible.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I've listened to a lot of audiobooks.
Speaker A:One, I can just, like a podcast.
Speaker A:I can listen to them on the go.
Speaker A:I can list them on the track.
Speaker A:But you know what?
Speaker A:I'm finding, the older that I get, I feel like I don't retain the audiobook as well.
Speaker A:Anymore.
Speaker A:And I don't.
Speaker A:I don't like that because I feel like I tune out.
Speaker A:Like, I don't know if it's about getting older, if it's just about honest Millennial.
Speaker A:And I get distracted.
Speaker A:And so I find myself, like, listening to audiobooks, you know, but not retaining as much is when I can physically read the book.
Speaker A:And it is what it is, and I.
Speaker A:I don't really know how to fix that, but I do, when possible, I do prefer to read the book because I just.
Speaker A:At this point, I get more out of it because I feel like maybe I can just dedicate more of myself to it.
Speaker C:You totally can.
Speaker C:You get lost.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I mean, I find, like, it's like listening to music with an audible audiobook.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:Sometimes you just get lost in your own thoughts and in your own head, and you tune out what is what, what's in the background, versus, like, if you're reading.
Speaker C:You can't get lost in your head because your head is focused on the words in front of you.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Well, that's right.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's like, it's all attention.
Speaker A:And we live in this time where, my gosh, it's harder than ever to get anybody's attention.
Speaker A:And, you know, I mean, I'm the first to say I have a very short attention span.
Speaker A:And so whenever I'm teaching people marketing, and I'm just saying, I'm like, look, like you have, like, three, four seconds to rope me in, so figure out how to do it real quick.
Speaker A:And guess what?
Speaker A:I'm a millennial.
Speaker A:You have Gen Z next.
Speaker A:It's going to have an even shorter attention span.
Speaker C:I think my kids are Gen Z, so that explains a lot.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I don't keep up with the generations, but I think that they are.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, probably.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Our kids are.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's just one of those things, right?
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:They're.
Speaker A:They're being bombarded.
Speaker A:We're all being bombarded with so many ads.
Speaker A:I think on average, we're probably seeing somewhere.
Speaker A:We got to be seeing, like, a thousand ads a day.
Speaker A:If you really think about it.
Speaker A:We've got to be probably getting around a thousand ads a day through various forms of media or entertainment.
Speaker A:And it's just like, it's harder and harder and harder to get people's attention.
Speaker A:And so, like, you need to step up your game with any type of marketing, and you need to make sure that everything is short, concise, and beautiful, because look at the things that are going to Wrap us in.
Speaker C:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:So, Sophie, talk to me.
Speaker A:How did you end up on this journey?
Speaker A:You've done so much.
Speaker A:You like, walk me through this.
Speaker A:How did you end up on your path?
Speaker C:That's such a loaded question.
Speaker C:I think that it was probably a series of unlikely events.
Speaker C:You know, a little bit of luck, a little bit of grace and a lot of hard work is probably what, what took me here.
Speaker C:I certainly, if you had asked, like the 23 year old version of myself when I was graduating from university, is this where you were going to end up?
Speaker C:I think that I would never have guessed real estate.
Speaker C:I knew I wanted, I knew I wanted more.
Speaker C:Like, I always knew.
Speaker C:Like, I was like the little kid with big dreams and so I knew that I wanted more.
Speaker C:I knew I wanted something great out of my career.
Speaker C:When I graduated from university, certainly did not think it was going to be in real estate.
Speaker C:Didn't even realize I had a passion for it until later on in life.
Speaker C:But I was, I was like, you know, like that annoying kid in university that was like, yeah, like, I'm gonna be a CEO.
Speaker C:I'm gonna be a cfo like this.
Speaker C:So that for sure, that was me.
Speaker C:I had no idea how I was gonna get there.
Speaker C:Not a clue.
Speaker C:Knew, didn't know what I was gonna do it in, but I was like, so what I'm gonna do, like, what are you gonna be when you grow up?
Speaker C:I'm gonna be CEO.
Speaker A:Were you always entrepreneurial?
Speaker A:Like driven?
Speaker A:Like, even as a kid?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, I was like, I, I think so.
Speaker C:Like, not, not full.
Speaker C:Like I've heard stories of like these like major entrepreneurs and certainly not to that level, but I was always the kid that was always working.
Speaker C:So like, you know, I had my own flyer out.
Speaker C:I wasn't old enough to get my own flyer out, so I got my sister to put it under her name.
Speaker C:And then I was able to like branch out, get more flyer routes.
Speaker C:So I had like five flyer routes.
Speaker C:And then I was like getting my older brother and sister to work for me with within the flyer routes.
Speaker C:And so I was.
Speaker C:And then I had like this like shoveling business where we went and shoveled people's sidewalks.
Speaker C:And so like those types of things that I always did.
Speaker C:Like, I've always worked from a young age.
Speaker C:And so I, I don't think I recognized it.
Speaker C:Like, I just thought that's just what people do.
Speaker C:I didn't really question it.
Speaker C:I was like, oh, that's what people do.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, it's, it's funny.
Speaker A:Because so many entrepreneurs that I have on the show have that same story.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, they started off young.
Speaker A:Neither had a lemonade stand or they were selling something.
Speaker A:I had one lady trying to sell stray cats.
Speaker A:There's been so many amazing young entrepreneurial stories and I think it really is in the blood with a lot of people.
Speaker A:A lot of people, it's like from kids, whether their parents were entrepreneurs or not, they were entrepreneurial.
Speaker A:They were out there figuring out, how can I.
Speaker A:How can I earn some money to do what I want to do?
Speaker A:I'm not going to wait for someone to give it to me.
Speaker A:I'm going to go figure out how to do it.
Speaker A:And it looks like you're no different.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I mean, I did not, I absolutely did not come from the entrepreneur family.
Speaker C:Like, both my parents are in the education system, so they're both chemists.
Speaker C:They both work for colleges and they were teachers union workers.
Speaker C:My brother went down that road, my sister went down that road.
Speaker C:So like, I show up to family dinners and they're like, there's the odd one.
Speaker C:We're not allowed to talk about politics.
Speaker C:Like, politics has been completely taken off the table.
Speaker C:Like my dad, who's in his late 70s, is like, you are not allowed to do this anymore.
Speaker C:Like, my heart can't take it.
Speaker C:So that's gone.
Speaker C:But yeah, it's definitely not from the entrepreneur family.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:No, no, it's.
Speaker A:It's interesting.
Speaker A:My mom worked in health care.
Speaker A:My dad had his own maintenance company, but he really just worked for one.
Speaker A:One client pretty much forever.
Speaker A:Like he really was that like 40 year career.
Speaker A:It was so funny.
Speaker A:Like he was an entrepreneur, but he just worked on contract for this like one client for literally 40 years.
Speaker A:He was.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so like, even though we came from an entrepreneurial background on a lot of, in a lot of ways, I was encouraged to go to the trades.
Speaker A:And I, you know, I mean, nothing wrong with the trades.
Speaker A:It just wasn't for me.
Speaker A:I knew that I wanted to do something else.
Speaker A:I worked at a car lot when I was in, when I was in high school.
Speaker A:And so for me it was like, okay, like I know these cars inside now.
Speaker A:Like, why don't I just go do that?
Speaker A:But they wouldn't hire me because I was young.
Speaker A:I was like 18.
Speaker A:I had no experience.
Speaker A:Like, go get, go get some sometimes sales experience and come back.
Speaker A:So I literally went and I worked at Visions Electronics in Edmonton for a year for about six sales.
Speaker A: r sales, but it was literally: Speaker A:I think I had, like, two good months, and then it was over.
Speaker A:But it really did launch me into what I have become today, which is very weird to think about.
Speaker A:It's like, I didn't really like car sales.
Speaker A:It was not for me.
Speaker A:But, you know, without doing that, without that kind of kickstarting this path, I'm not sure that I would have ended up here.
Speaker A:And what's funny, Sophie, was that I actually left.
Speaker A: laid off, like, around early: Speaker A:And my sister's like, kelly, like, go to college.
Speaker A:Like, what are you doing?
Speaker A:Just go to college.
Speaker A:Figure your shit out.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, I ended up going.
Speaker A:I enrolled in a business admin course.
Speaker A:It was like a fast track to your diploma.
Speaker A:I literally did it in one year.
Speaker A:I got.
Speaker A:I got five days off the whole year.
Speaker A:Like, it was absolutely bonkers.
Speaker A:Came out the other end with a diploma, and I'm like, yes, now I don't have to do sales anymore.
Speaker A:This is over.
Speaker A:I'm gonna go.
Speaker A:I'm gonna go get an operations job.
Speaker A:I'm gonna go, like, work at a company and do something that's like, I understand.
Speaker A:It's just super easy.
Speaker A:And then I ended up working in a company for, like, a month, and they're like, look, like, I.
Speaker A:I think I had to interact with, like, a handful of their clients, and it went really well.
Speaker A:And they're like, okay, look like, you're not doing this anymore.
Speaker A:We need you in business development.
Speaker A:You know what business development is?
Speaker A:And I literally googled it.
Speaker A:I'm like, what is business development?
Speaker A:Because they didn't teach me about this in college.
Speaker A:And, yeah, that's it.
Speaker A:Like, the rest is history.
Speaker A:I worked for 10 years at that organization doing business development, and honestly, like, went from running from sales to just loving it and embracing it wholeheartedly.
Speaker A:And, like, I don't know what the heck I'd be doing if I wasn't doing business development at this point.
Speaker C:It's so, like, it's so funny.
Speaker C:And by the way, like, I've done that so many times where I've sat in meetings and somebody has said something to me, and I have no idea what it is, and I Google it underneath goals, and I'm like, oh, yeah, uhhuh.
Speaker C:Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker C:I actually Did.
Speaker C:But so I've done that so many times in.
Speaker C:In my career, and I think it's like, I.
Speaker C:I think you put, like, you nailed it perfectly.
Speaker C:Is if you are fortunate enough to be in the right situation where somebody sees a talent that you didn't even know you had, Right?
Speaker C:So somebody saw this talent that you had in business development, and they were like, this is where you need to be.
Speaker C:And that's like, that is a good leader.
Speaker C:That is a good organization to look to be like, listen, this is where you need to be.
Speaker C:This is a talent that you have.
Speaker C:So let's foster this, let's grow this, and we're going to take a chance on you, and you take a chance on us.
Speaker C:I think that that is the mark of good leadership, a good organization, and that's.
Speaker C:That's all you need is one person.
Speaker C:One person to say, like, hey, you know what?
Speaker C:You got something here.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, no, I agree completely.
Speaker A:And, like, to this day, you and my former boss are still very close friends, right?
Speaker A:Like, yeah, I owe that man my career because I would not have.
Speaker A:I would not have gone down this path, like, there's no question, if it wouldn't have been kind of reinforced and was like, you know what?
Speaker A:Just keep at this.
Speaker A:I think there's something here.
Speaker A:It's a little bit hard to believe sometimes that I could be doing something completely different.
Speaker C:Well.
Speaker C:And yeah, it's just.
Speaker C:It just takes one person.
Speaker C:And sometimes who we are and who we think we want to be can be different.
Speaker C:And I think you just have to be okay with it and.
Speaker C:And pivot or be willing to work really.
Speaker C:Work really hard on who you want, who you think you should be.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I would say, like, in my experience, probably 99 of the time, nothing goes exactly how you plan, especially in business.
Speaker A:Absolutely nothing, especially in business.
Speaker A:It's like, you can make all the plans you want, but the real thing you need to do is be prepared to say yes when the right opportunity comes, because I can almost guarantee you that moment where you're ready to say yes is not going to be in your plan.
Speaker C:I think if anybody were to ask me, like, what is.
Speaker C:What's the critical skills or attributes you need to have to be a great business leader to be really successful in business?
Speaker C:I would say, like, it's a couple things.
Speaker C:One is, I would be like, you have to be tenacious.
Speaker C:You need tenacity, Call it hard work, call it whatever you want, but that's what you need.
Speaker C:And the other thing is, is you cannot Be scared of change.
Speaker C:Yeah, you just.
Speaker C:You have to love it.
Speaker C:You have to embrace it.
Speaker C:And if you're scared of it, if it terrifies you, it's.
Speaker C:It's not the right path.
Speaker A:I would say that I've never grown from running from an uncomfortable situation, but I've always grown when I just took it on and embraced it.
Speaker C:Oh, it's all the time.
Speaker C:I used to.
Speaker C:So I used to hate public speaking.
Speaker C:Now I don't love it, but I will do it.
Speaker C:But I always forced myself to do it.
Speaker C:And don't get me wrong, like, there was this process that I would go through.
Speaker C:I would commit to doing an event, I would commit to public speaking, and then I would be sitting there waiting to be called up, and there would be this whole process to go through.
Speaker C:Like, I'm ashamed to admit, like, there's been times where I wish somebody in the crowd who would have a heart attack so that I wouldn't have to go up there and talk.
Speaker C:And I was like, oh, please, get a call that someone's died.
Speaker C:Like, anything get me out of this.
Speaker C:Like, anything I can do, but I force myself to do it over and over and over again so that I still don't love it, but I don't hate it now.
Speaker C:And there are times where I'm like, this is really empowering.
Speaker C:Like, this is, like, there's times that you go up and now, you know when you're nailing it.
Speaker C:You know when you're not.
Speaker C:And when you nail it, when you're public speaking, it can be the most empowering thing you do.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Can we speak to the anxiety from public speaking?
Speaker A:Because, you know, I get it.
Speaker A:Like, I get wicked, wicked anxiety, stage fright.
Speaker A:I always have from a little kid to today.
Speaker A:And it's funny because people will say, like, oh, you know, like, you see people up there and they must just, like, not be afraid.
Speaker A:And it's like, no.
Speaker A:Like, you never really get over the anxiety.
Speaker A:What ends up happening is you just get better at handling it.
Speaker A:But, like, understand that everybody you see who's up there putting themselves out there in the world, they're.
Speaker A:They're.
Speaker A:They are feeling it.
Speaker A:They are definitely feeling stage frightened anxiety.
Speaker A:I still have times that I get on here.
Speaker A:I feel anxiety, like, at this point, too.
Speaker A:Like, we're over 200 shows, 212 episodes at this point.
Speaker A:And there are still.
Speaker A:There are still times that I get up here and I'm feeling like, okay, I'm feeling off today.
Speaker A:Like, I'm not feeling great about this.
Speaker A:But you Know what show must go on, we're gonna do it, but understand that, like, we all experience it.
Speaker C:I love that you said that.
Speaker C:And I always try to communicate to people because they're.
Speaker C:They'll come up to me like, sophie, you're a great public speaker.
Speaker C:Like, you're so confident.
Speaker C:And I was like, you do know I'm dying inside, right?
Speaker C:Like, you know that.
Speaker C:They're like, no, no, no.
Speaker C:And I was like, no, I.
Speaker C:I am absolutely dying inside.
Speaker C:Like, I have these tricks, but I'm super nervous.
Speaker C:I, like, I'm sweating.
Speaker C:Like, it's all the emotions that you feel.
Speaker C:I also feel I just develop the technique and the tricks to hide them so that you can't tell when I'm up there.
Speaker C:But you're not alone.
Speaker C:Like, you are 100% not alone.
Speaker C:If you are nervous or anxious about public speaking, we all are.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.
Speaker A:It's like.
Speaker A:It's like, in my mind, bravery isn't going up and doing something.
Speaker A:It's being afraid and doing it anyway.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, and I think that's what most of us are doing.
Speaker A:No matter what you're doing, whether.
Speaker A:Whether you're putting yourself on social media, whether you're doing a podcast, whether you're doing a YouTube, whether you're doing a big public speech, we are all experiencing that, like, that angst, that, like that anxiety feeling.
Speaker A:And we're just figuring out a way to.
Speaker A:To move forward.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, totally.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Anyways, Sophie, I want you to run me through your career, because you've had a very amazing and interesting career, by the way.
Speaker A:You know, start out with.
Speaker A:With your time with the government of Alberta.
Speaker A:That's an interesting one.
Speaker C:So I grab.
Speaker C:I'm going to date myself here.
Speaker C:And also a little worried.
Speaker C: the University of Alberta in: Speaker C:I had a degree in business, and I applied for every job out there, and I ended up getting a couple job offers.
Speaker C:One was to work in a bank.
Speaker C:One was to.
Speaker C:And then the other one was as an intern at the government.
Speaker C:And so my parents, you know, union workers, blah, blah, blah, they were like, you must take this job at the government.
Speaker C:So I went and I worked in the government.
Speaker C:I worked in a department called Financial institutions, Insurance and Pension.
Speaker C:And then I just kind of worked.
Speaker C:I worked in that department from the time of being an intern.
Speaker C:I think I worked there for five or six years.
Speaker C:And so I just took, like, a bunch of different roles, working in their finance department and just slowly like worked my way up and worked through it.
Speaker C:I kind of knew this wasn't my career journey.
Speaker C:Like I knew when I.
Speaker C:I think I probably knew pretty quickly after I started there that it wasn't going to be my career journey.
Speaker C:But I wanted to take as much as I could, learn as much as I could.
Speaker C:I started my master's program at, while I was at the government.
Speaker C:They allowed me, while I was doing my master's, I also wanted to get the prereqs to get my accounting designation.
Speaker C:And so they allowed me to go during the day and take the classes for accounting.
Speaker C:So I'll always be grateful for my experience at the government.
Speaker C:I still talk to the friends that I made there today.
Speaker C:And it was just a great journey like it.
Speaker C:I learned a lot of things about policy.
Speaker C:I learned how to be a really good reader in terms of like, you know, legal type of documents, manage like, you know, big, big groups of people with differing views and being able to balance that out.
Speaker C:And so I just got some really great experience.
Speaker C:And then after that I was close to getting my masters and I knew I felt like I needed to get a designation.
Speaker C:Like my path was really more finance oriented.
Speaker C:And I was like, you know, I said before, like, I was like, yeah, I'm going to be a CFO or I'm going to be a CEO.
Speaker C:So I was like, well, you need an accounting designation.
Speaker C:Like, no one's going to take you seriously unless you get this accounting designation.
Speaker C:So I decided to get this accounting designation.
Speaker C:And so I was like, okay, well I need an accounting job so I can learn how to do this.
Speaker C:And so it's a bit little tricky trying to get an accounting job when you have no experience in accounting whatsoever.
Speaker C:And now I was a senior manager at the government, so I had some seniority in my career.
Speaker C:I had a lot of doors shut in my face for sure.
Speaker C:But I finally somebody opened the door and I went and I got a job as like an accounting analyst at Enbridge.
Speaker C:Totally took a pay cut, took a major step down in my career.
Speaker C:But I was like, whatever, it's what you got to do.
Speaker C:My husband's great, super successful.
Speaker C:So he was like, it was okay.
Speaker C:We had the flexibility to do that.
Speaker C:And so then I went and I worked in Enbridge for I think five or six years.
Speaker C:Again, it was amazing.
Speaker C:Like, I learned how to be an accountant.
Speaker C:I worked with some fantastic leaders.
Speaker C:I worked with.
Speaker C:There was one gentleman I worked with there and he essentially taught Me, everything I know about accounting.
Speaker C:And so I did that, had my kids came back from maternity leave and worked through, worked through that with Enbridge.
Speaker C:And then I was like, okay, it's time for me to, to make a career change.
Speaker C:I need to do something different and diversify my skill set.
Speaker C:And then I went to work for Canadian Western bank for a couple years.
Speaker C:I worked in their corporate finance department.
Speaker C:So I worked there for three years.
Speaker C:I worked with them on a major banking software transition.
Speaker C:I worked with their board of directors quite a bit.
Speaker C:I worked on like their divestitures.
Speaker C:And so it was really, that also was really great experience.
Speaker C:I did a lot of the board reporting.
Speaker C:So it really taught me how to work at that level.
Speaker C:But I was very clear to me while I was at M or not at Enbridge, at cwb was very clear to me that this was not my passion.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And that I was working double time to make up for what I lacked in passion.
Speaker C:Like, it was just hard work.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I had young kids at the time.
Speaker C:I worked more.
Speaker C:I carried my kids sleeping out of that office more times than I care to count.
Speaker C:So I actually left Canadian Western bank and I was like, I don't know if I want to work anymore.
Speaker C:My kids are young.
Speaker C:I don't want to lose this time with them.
Speaker C:I felt so distracted all the time.
Speaker C:And so I took, I don't know how long I took off, but I took quite a period of time off.
Speaker C:Now during that time, my husband, I was like, I'm going to be a stay at home mom.
Speaker C:So like, let go of the nanny where I'm going to be a stay at home mom.
Speaker C:Now my husband had the wherewithal to be like, he, he packaged it in a prettier box where he was like, listen, you worked really hard, so let's just keep the nanny and let you relax for a few months before we really make permanent decisions.
Speaker C:Fast forward like six months I go to Dwayne and I'm like, I'm dying of boredom.
Speaker C:Like, like a piece of me inside is dying.
Speaker C:And he's like, well, good thing we kept ready.
Speaker A:My gosh.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like that's it.
Speaker A:It's like, it's.
Speaker A:I think it's really hard, especially when you've worked as hard as you have and you put so much effort into just like to walk away from that must have been really challenging.
Speaker A:Can we talk about like that choice to leave?
Speaker A:You know, I mean, obviously you, you've, you've invested a lot in your career.
Speaker A:You're going Places.
Speaker A:It's taking a step back for.
Speaker A:To be.
Speaker A:To be a parent is incredibly admirable.
Speaker A:You know, my fiance has done the same for us and.
Speaker A:But I also see the, like, the challenge in that for her and for you.
Speaker C:It was so.
Speaker C:It was actually like that I had a moment.
Speaker C:Like, I was.
Speaker C:I'm not really one of those people that's had a moment.
Speaker C:Like, I'm very practical about my decision making, but I.
Speaker C:I was always very like.
Speaker C:I was like, you know what?
Speaker C:I'm a mom.
Speaker C:I gotta take the kids, their activity.
Speaker C:Like, I didn't like to put too much on the nanny.
Speaker C:And so I used to, like, run home to take the kids to their activities.
Speaker C:And I was taking my son, and he was probably maybe five or six at the time, and I was taking him to karate.
Speaker C:I had my daughter, she would have been like 4 or 5, had my daughter with me.
Speaker C:And Isaac, my son, he said something and I laughed.
Speaker C:And then he turns to me, he goes, mom, do that again.
Speaker C:And I was like, what?
Speaker C:And he goes, laugh.
Speaker C:I never see you smile anymore.
Speaker C:And I was like, oh, like.
Speaker C:Like that statement, it just hit me.
Speaker C:Like, I'll never forget it.
Speaker C:I'll never.
Speaker C:Like, it just hit me.
Speaker C:And then I took the kids off.
Speaker C:And then Dwayne came home that night, and he was working like crazy because he had his own business.
Speaker C:And he came home that night and we sat together, and I was like, I can't do this anymore.
Speaker C:Like, I can't have my kids at this young age.
Speaker C:Look at me.
Speaker C:And I'm not smiling.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And he's like, what do you want to do?
Speaker C:And I was like, I think we need to hit reset.
Speaker C:I don't want to do this.
Speaker C:I want to be a mom.
Speaker C:And so it was kind.
Speaker C:It wasn't like, it was almost kind of easy because he said that.
Speaker C:And obviously it must have been at the back of my mind.
Speaker C:I just wasn't, like, emotionally advanced enough to realize it.
Speaker C:But because he said that, I was like, yeah, no, I can't.
Speaker C:I can't do that.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker A:It's hard.
Speaker A:It's hard being career driven and trying to balance that with being a good parent, a good partner.
Speaker A:Like, my gosh, you know, I haven't met an entrepreneur yet who hasn't struggled immensely with balance.
Speaker C:Oh.
Speaker C:So if somebody has a formula, time management is, bar none, my biggest challenge and continues to be has been probably my whole life.
Speaker C:But for sure, since I've.
Speaker C:We've had kids and for sure, since, like, I've taken geared up here.
Speaker C:It's time management.
Speaker C:I'm like, this is so bad.
Speaker C:And I'm sure people would not agree with what I'm saying, but saddest part is, like, friends.
Speaker C:I don't have time for friends.
Speaker C:I'm sorry if you're not a friend who can't handle me texting and being like, hey, just so you know, I still love you.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Like that.
Speaker C:If you can't be that friend, you can't be in my life.
Speaker C:I'm going to be a flag.
Speaker C:I'll tell you right now.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I struggle with that, and I think so does almost everybody that I've talked to on this show.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:And it's not that.
Speaker A:You know what?
Speaker A:It's that if I have spare time, my family deserves that time.
Speaker A:I think that's the challenge that I run into.
Speaker A:Because, you know, I mean, like you, I work a lot.
Speaker A:I have a lot going on, and I want to make sure my clients are happy, I want to make sure the listeners of the show are happy, and I want to make sure my family's happy.
Speaker A:And as much as I love my friends, and I love them immensely, like you said, it's like, maybe if I get to see you once every, you know, three to six months, I am thankful for that moment.
Speaker A:That's all I can say.
Speaker C:Oh, and I love every minute of it.
Speaker C:And I just.
Speaker C:But, yeah, if you need constant attention as a friend, it's not going to work for us.
Speaker A:It's tough.
Speaker A:It's tough.
Speaker A:Friendship as an adult is just a tough thing.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:I think it's tough for everyone.
Speaker A:I don't think it's just us, Sophie.
Speaker C:I think so, too.
Speaker C:Let's go with that.
Speaker C:Makes me feel better.
Speaker C:So let's do it.
Speaker A:Yeah, totally.
Speaker A:Well, take us into TAG developments.
Speaker C:So TAG was just like a short.
Speaker C:It was a short stop.
Speaker C:So I was.
Speaker C:I was bored, really bored at home, struggling with, like, letting my career go and what that was going to mean for me as, like, an independent woman and things like that.
Speaker C:And so I was like, hey, I'm going to dip back into this.
Speaker C:I really want work, life, balance.
Speaker C:And I had kind of started to realize that I loved real estate.
Speaker C:We had done some investments on the side, and I had a lot of fun with them.
Speaker C:So I was like, okay, I'm gonna try this out.
Speaker C:And it was small and it was quiet, and I thought this was a perfect balance for me.
Speaker C:So I went in and I worked for TAG as their Controller.
Speaker C:And tag's a fantastic company.
Speaker C:I did discover that at work, I'm either 0 or 110, but I don't have an in between.
Speaker C:And if I.
Speaker C:If there is an in between, it actually eats away at my soul.
Speaker C:So I can't do that.
Speaker C:And that's what TAG was.
Speaker C:It was an in between.
Speaker C:And so I was typically every day by like 11am I was done my work.
Speaker C:Like, I am the person.
Speaker C:Like, I Show up at 7 whether I need to or not, because I think that's what I should be.
Speaker C:And so I was like, yeah, I was done by 11am and I was like, like, do what to do.
Speaker C:I can be very disruptive, very distracted for other people.
Speaker C:Like, I really can take everybody else down the dark path with me.
Speaker C:So I.
Speaker C:But I still kind of was like, oh, this is the right thing for my family.
Speaker C:Blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker C:And then landracks came around and they actually, they headhunted me.
Speaker C:They came, we had a couple.
Speaker C:I had a couple interviews with them.
Speaker C:I was really on the fence with Laundry X big time.
Speaker C:And then I met Larry, who owns the company.
Speaker C:And he and I hit it off immediately.
Speaker C:And he just like, yeah, we just, we hit it off.
Speaker C:We got each other.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And then I started to.
Speaker C:I went over there and I started working for Laundrax.
Speaker A:Was that like, that would have been essentially your second foray into land development?
Speaker A:Hey, because that's what you were doing with TAG as well.
Speaker C:Yeah, Taega was doing land development.
Speaker C:So this was like my second quarry into land development.
Speaker C:I can't remember what year it was.
Speaker C: Probably about: Speaker C:So the market was like a dumpster fire for real estate.
Speaker C:It was garbage.
Speaker C:And so it was for.
Speaker C:Certainly wasn't the best time.
Speaker C:Shortly after I started, the president left.
Speaker C:So I actually started in a finance role.
Speaker C:President left shortly after I started.
Speaker C:And Larry just kind of kept.
Speaker C:Kept coming to me for really more presidential things.
Speaker C:And so.
Speaker C:And I did that for a while.
Speaker C:Kind of did like this interim between roles for a long time.
Speaker C:And it was a really hard market to work in.
Speaker C:You know, absorption was an issue.
Speaker C:Financing everything, everything we touched was an issue.
Speaker C:And Larry used to tell me, because I'd, you know, times where I just be like, oh, geez, like, this is.
Speaker C:It's not going well.
Speaker C:Like, Larry, I think you need to hire somebody better.
Speaker C:Like, this is not going good.
Speaker C:But Larry always just tell me, it's like, listen, Sophie, we can make money in this market.
Speaker C:You'll be successful no matter what you touch.
Speaker C:Like it's how you perform in the hardest, worst market is your leading indicator.
Speaker C:So we just work through it.
Speaker C:We work through all the problems and we work through all the issues.
Speaker C:And that's when I really started to lean into like the diversification model.
Speaker C:I had seen when we started, I seen the market had started to soften.
Speaker C:And so thankfully, and there was a lot of fights along the way, but thankfully I'd reserved a lot of cash and I was like, let's just put this money away.
Speaker C:Nobody touches it.
Speaker C:Like so.
Speaker C:And I was grateful that we did that because it carried us through.
Speaker C:But it really became clear that we needed to diversify.
Speaker C:You can't just, you can just have land and absolutely you can.
Speaker C:I, because of my finance background, I'm a big, big proponent.
Speaker C:Like we diversify our stock portfolios, you diversify your holdings, you diversify your friend groups.
Speaker C:Like you diversify all across your life, diversifying in your business as well.
Speaker C:So and that's what we did.
Speaker C:We built a model and we worked on diversification over the next like five or six years to, to transition the company so that it wasn't just in land development, that it was land development, it was multifamily, it was commercial.
Speaker C:So there's just multiple different sources of revenue which take you.
Speaker C:It's a long, it's a long term game, it's not short term like you, you have to commit to it.
Speaker C:But that's what we did and it's working out really well.
Speaker A:Amazing, Amazing.
Speaker A:Sophie, Like I said, we haven't had land developers really on here, at least not one like you.
Speaker A:And so what I would really like to do today is we have an audience of people who might find this really interesting.
Speaker A:Could you maybe give us a bit of a 101 on, on land development?
Speaker A:What is a land and real estate developer and how does the whole system work?
Speaker A:Like run us through from start to finish.
Speaker C:So I'll talk because it's not all, not, it's not all made equally.
Speaker C:So I'll just talk about land development at a very high level.
Speaker C:So essentially for my seed and what we did is so we would go and purchase like 160 acres of land, a huge piece of land, typically farmland, not developed, not serviced nothing, just like Prairie Alberta, what you see.
Speaker C:And so then after that you have to go in.
Speaker C:Once you purchase your land, you want to go in and you want to get your regulatory approvals and essentially that regulatory approvals puts a plan in place on that Land.
Speaker C:So it's like a map of the land and it says, okay, you're going to do residential, so lots that people live in, you're going to do commercial, you're going to do multifamily, you need some storm water ponds, you need roads, you need green space, parks, pathways, all that stuff.
Speaker C:So you build a high level plan and then that gets approved by the municipality, whichever one that you're working with.
Speaker C:And so essentially it's like your community map, right?
Speaker C:So you, we all live in communities, they were all made this way.
Speaker C:And then you go through like section by section.
Speaker C:So 160 acres is not developed all at once.
Speaker C:You would do like a 20 acre development and you would go in and again you have to go through the whole regulatory process because you take that big plan now and you narrow it down into like a smaller, tighter plan and, but you have to demonstrate how it rolls into the total concept.
Speaker C:And so then you go in, you get that approved and then you start construction.
Speaker C:Very simply speaking.
Speaker C:So your construction is your grading.
Speaker C:So you have to grade the land, make sure it's level your storm water ponds.
Speaker C:So those big lakes that you see in every community, those lakes are there because they take the storm drainage from the whole community and then they usually, they work in a network of systems that bring it into, you know, other river or whatever it is.
Speaker C:So, and then you, so you start with your grading and then you go in and you do your underground.
Speaker C:So that could be, you know, or that is like your storm, your water, your sanitary or all like your underground pipes, those all go in, gets compacted, you build your roads, you put, put in your sidewalks, you put in your fences, you put in your power and then bombs your uncle, you're done.
Speaker C:It sounds so easy.
Speaker A:It sounds very expensive is what it sounds.
Speaker C:It is expensive.
Speaker C:Land development is not a poor person's game, that's for sure.
Speaker A:No, it sounds like, like when you, when you factor in the cost of like each thing in a community, the cost of a building, the cost of a home, the cost of bloody putting in paths and parks and God knows what else, it sounds like you almost have to front load all that cost.
Speaker A:Like how does that even work?
Speaker C:So you, you finance.
Speaker C:So what you do.
Speaker C:Like my typical rule of thumb is I like the land to be free and clear.
Speaker C:It's not always free and clear, but like, and it depends where you're, where you're buying.
Speaker C:But like if you're buying 160 acres, cost you like Depends.
Speaker C:$30 million.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So you Use that.
Speaker C:So I like that piece to be free and clear.
Speaker C:Once you take that, then essentially what you do is you.
Speaker C:You borrow, so you finance it.
Speaker C:So there's certain banks that know and understand.
Speaker C:Most banks do.
Speaker C:They know and they understand it.
Speaker C:You get your.
Speaker C:So I always used to get pre sale.
Speaker C:So I would go out and I presale the lots to builders so you know that you have your end sales secured.
Speaker C:And so then I would go to the bank and I'd say, hey, I need $20 million to do these lots.
Speaker C:You guys finance it.
Speaker C:They finance it.
Speaker C:You use that to pay all your bills.
Speaker C:Your builders pay you, and then you pay back the bank.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker C:And then you get paid after.
Speaker C:So my standing joke is, but it's kind of true, is like a land developer is either the poorest guy in the room or the richest guy in the room.
Speaker C:You're super.
Speaker C:You're always paying the bank.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Up front.
Speaker C:So like 160 acres, let's say, can take you eight years to go through.
Speaker C:So the first four years, you're paying the bank, you're paying off your land, you're paying off everything.
Speaker C:It's the last four years, that's when.
Speaker C:That's when he.
Speaker C:He or she's the rich one.
Speaker C:Like, they're all like, making it rain money.
Speaker C:And then you hit reset.
Speaker C:That's like, you hit reset, then you go through it all over again.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:So for you too, like, if you're working in that cycle, it really is a.
Speaker A:Oh, we're dying.
Speaker A:Oh, we're doing great.
Speaker A:Oh, we're dying.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And you're talking about a bunch of serial entrepreneurs.
Speaker C:So anytime you have cash in your jeans, you're looking what the next thing you can buy is that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, nobody cares about what they can buy themselves.
Speaker C:Everybody just cares about what's the next piece of real estate.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's just a cycle.
Speaker A:It's like a boom and bust cycle, right?
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:And yeah, like, I was just thinking to, like, when you ended up in that position.
Speaker A:I totally agree.
Speaker A:Like, we were in the middle of a pretty big oil downturn during that time.
Speaker A:I imagine it was probably a tough market.
Speaker C:It was.
Speaker C:Yeah, it was really tough.
Speaker C:And, you know, there was.
Speaker C:We had water.
Speaker C:I think we had one or two years, maybe one year.
Speaker C:We didn't do anything.
Speaker C:Didn't do any land development, did nothing.
Speaker C:Covet hit.
Speaker C:I opened up a restaurant 20 days before COVID started.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker C:I got good stories.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:I opened up a Restaurant, I think it was like, February 19th, the Boston Pizza, and it was going amazing.
Speaker C:And then all of a sudden, Covid hit on, like, March.
Speaker C:Whatever it was March 9th or something, that everything got closed down.
Speaker C:And I was like, well, I'm done in the restaurant business.
Speaker C:That's it.
Speaker C:It's over.
Speaker A:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:That's horrible.
Speaker A:That should have been a sure thing.
Speaker C:Oh, it was like.
Speaker C:Yeah, it was.
Speaker C:We made it through, though.
Speaker C:We pivoted.
Speaker C:Made it through, and the restaurant is still running today.
Speaker C:But amazing.
Speaker C:That was.
Speaker C:And we actually, you know, in the first.
Speaker C:I think it was the first year of COVID we were one of the only developers that I did a subdivision in Fort Saskatchewan, sold like this in a hot minute.
Speaker C:So you just got to see opportunity and don't be afraid to go for it.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, well.
Speaker A:And you know what?
Speaker A:In my experience, nothing great happens without a little risk.
Speaker A:The best wins are when you take a little risk and it pays off for you anyway.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, it's like, I feel like if you just.
Speaker A:Just one.
Speaker A:And you weren't really trying, you just don't feel it.
Speaker A:You don't appreciate it.
Speaker C:You just like, I.
Speaker C:I think it's like, I always, like, say, like, go with your gut because it's your subconscious, right?
Speaker C:Like, your gut is really just your subconscious telling you it's a good idea.
Speaker C:Go.
Speaker C:Your gut feels like a good thing.
Speaker C:It's probably.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And then you went out on your own.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Let's talk about.
Speaker A:Let's talk about the leap to Bear Capital.
Speaker A:Why did you do that?
Speaker C:Spent the last 10 years of my career calling myself a wantrepreneur.
Speaker C:Like, I wanted to be an entrepreneur, but I wouldn't go there.
Speaker C:So I was a wantrepreneur, worked for a great organization.
Speaker C:I had a lot of leniency within Ladrax.
Speaker C:Like, I.
Speaker C:The new deals I bought in the door.
Speaker C:The owner was always like, yep, yep, yep.
Speaker C:He rarely said no.
Speaker C:So I had a lot of leniency.
Speaker C:Also was recognizing that I was taking the company to a place that I.
Speaker C:It had limitations in terms of, like, ownership and different things like that, that I was going to grow beyond that.
Speaker C:And so I was like, I want to go out on my own.
Speaker C:I wanted to do this on my own, had to figure out a way to do it.
Speaker C:And I'd always love the private equity model.
Speaker C:I think it's a great model.
Speaker C:It's not super prevalent in Alberta and in Western Canada, but it's very prevalent in eastern Canada.
Speaker C:The Us.
Speaker C:And I had.
Speaker C:So I just kind of.
Speaker C:I honestly, like, I just took the leap, and I was like, you either.
Speaker C:I was more scared of not trying than I was a failing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I think that that was what it came down to.
Speaker A:You know what?
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker A:I think it's way worse to not try than it is to try real hard and fail.
Speaker A:Because at least if you try and fail, there's a lot of lessons that you learn along the way and a lot of grit that you learn along the way.
Speaker A:I've talked to so many people on here who have had, you know, their first business, second business, whatever, didn't work out, but by the time they got to their third business, they absolutely killed it because they learned so many lessons from those first two.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And that's like.
Speaker C:I mean, I tell, like, I give the story to my kids all the time, and I say to them, like, there's no shame in failing, but there's shame and not trying again.
Speaker C:Yeah, like that.
Speaker C:That's where.
Speaker C:That's where you should be ashamed of.
Speaker C:And so I was like, okay, well, you have to take your kids lessons.
Speaker C:I love that you talk about grit all the time.
Speaker C:I actually read.
Speaker C:We were talking about books.
Speaker C:I read that book earlier a couple years ago.
Speaker C:It's a great book.
Speaker C:It's a great read for anybody.
Speaker C:It was a great read for me because it resonated so strongly with me.
Speaker C:But, yeah, I just.
Speaker C:It's not like I had.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I just knew I wanted to be on my own.
Speaker C:I knew I wanted to make my own decisions.
Speaker C:And I know real estate.
Speaker C:I know how to make money off of it.
Speaker C:And so I was like, it's not about.
Speaker C:It's just about whether or not I can sell this story.
Speaker C:Well, that's what it came down to.
Speaker C:I still.
Speaker C:I think I can.
Speaker C:Like, we're obviously, we're in the capital raise stage of bear capital right now, and it's going.
Speaker C:It's going well.
Speaker C:We're.
Speaker C:We're getting traction.
Speaker C:We are.
Speaker C:People are interested.
Speaker C:It's a really tough time to raise capital in the market.
Speaker C:We've built great relationships with first nations over my past history, and I have some great people who have come, you know, come out of the woodwork to support me and to rally behind me.
Speaker C:So I've been extremely fortunate in that area.
Speaker C:And it's like, it's for sure not easy.
Speaker C:Like, it's.
Speaker C:When I.
Speaker C:When I had this vision and I was like, oh, yeah, so that's what I'm going to Do I'm going to go out and market with raise $50 million and I'm going to deploy that, buy some real estate and like bugger uncle will be done and it's no problem.
Speaker C:Well, you know, it's a little harder than what that.
Speaker C:That description is, but I still think it is absolutely 100% worth it run.
Speaker A:Me through the capital raising process.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's like we're talking to a lot of business development people who are really used to building relationships, relationships on behalf of companies and selling products and services.
Speaker A:But what is it like to sell an idea like or a future investment?
Speaker A:It seems like a really challenging thing.
Speaker A:Can we speak to that?
Speaker C:It is really challenging.
Speaker C:So essentially.
Speaker C:So essentially how the process works is like we obviously we had to.
Speaker C:We had to get the building blocks in place before we could sell anything, right.
Speaker C:So that was just like your legal documents, your pitch deck, understanding your deal pipeline and understanding what you're selling.
Speaker C:And so it's.
Speaker C:So we needed that in place.
Speaker C:It took a long time to get that in place.
Speaker C:Thankfully, we do have it finally in place.
Speaker C:And so essentially what our first.
Speaker C:Because we have Bear Capital has an affordable housing impact component to it, we do have indigenous First Nation partners that we have been working with and we will push an additional benefit back to any of our indigenous partners that sign up.
Speaker C:So our initial approach was, is that we were going to go to all of our First Nation partners and people that we knew and some people that we don't know and talk to them about Bar Capital.
Speaker C:What I do find is once I can get in front of somebody and I can talk to them about what Bear Capital is, I have, I think the very.
Speaker C:For.
Speaker C:I think it's fortunate, the fortunate experience of the fact that I'm not an investment banker.
Speaker C:That is not who I am.
Speaker C:Yeah, I'm really.
Speaker C:So I'm not a private equity person.
Speaker C:I know how to manage money.
Speaker C:Obviously, I've done it for decades and decades.
Speaker C:But I do know.
Speaker C:What I do know is real estate.
Speaker C:I know land development.
Speaker C:I know vertical construction.
Speaker C:And I know how to manage that.
Speaker C:And I have a track record of demonstrating that I can do that.
Speaker C:And so I think that that works very well for me is that I have the experience.
Speaker C:I can back it up and say, do you like this building?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Do you like this subdivision?
Speaker C:Okay, I did that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I have tactical experiences I think is not commonplace in the industry.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So that is where.
Speaker C:But you know, I am up against like big, big guys with a lot of experience that show up, you know, in suits, and they've got billions of dollars behind them.
Speaker C:And, like, I'm just Bear Capital.
Speaker C:Like, this is.
Speaker C:This is it.
Speaker C:But I think that being able to demonstrate that you have something different has been a critical piece.
Speaker A:Well, I can tell you, for me, if I was to look at Bear Capital, which is essentially what you were doing, like, it uses all of the lessons that you learned throughout your career.
Speaker A:Like, everything you have done has led you to this position, to, frankly, be the perfect person for this position.
Speaker A:And so I think you're right.
Speaker A:I think when people buy Bear Capital, what they're really buying is you.
Speaker A:They're buying you because you have so much experience to be able to make the right decisions, to invest in the right pieces of property, to put together the right plan that will lead to future success.
Speaker A:To me, that's more valuable than someone with a whole bunch of money behind them.
Speaker A:I would much rather have somebody who knows what they're actually doing because they've done it for many years.
Speaker C:That's what we're finding.
Speaker C:It's like that.
Speaker C:As long as I can get in front of a person and I can talk to them and I can demonstrate, hey, this is.
Speaker C:This is what I've done, this is what we do, then they're definitely much more receptive to the concept of bare capital.
Speaker C:And that's how we have been able to get the traction that we've got.
Speaker C:It took, I would say, like, it probably took about three months of, like, people not answering your phone, phone call, people not, like, responding.
Speaker C:But now what's happened is we've come over the hump, we've got over the hump.
Speaker C:And so now people are reaching out to me, they want to talk to me, they're trying to get me involved in what they're doing.
Speaker C:And so we jumped over it.
Speaker C:And now we're starting to see things move forward, which is like, I'm not gonna lie, there was, like, many sleepless nights that I had.
Speaker C:And also, like, times where I was like, oh, my God, I'm gonna throw up.
Speaker C:Like, this is a full body reaction.
Speaker C:Like, what did I do?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I remember my boss telling me, kelly, you're not an intro, you're not an entrepreneur until you wake up in the middle of the night and you have a little freak out.
Speaker A:And I was like, I remember having that, like, probably about, I don't know, about a year ago.
Speaker A:And I was like, okay, okay, I did it.
Speaker A:I made it.
Speaker C:It's like the other.
Speaker C:I think it was like two Nights ago, my.
Speaker C:It was like three or four in the morning, and I was wide awake in bed and I just started hammering out emails and typing notes to myself and da, da, da, da.
Speaker C:So my husband wakes up and he looks over and he's like this again because he knows, like, it's been so many years where I'll be up in the middle of night because I got something on my mind, and I'm like, I got it.
Speaker C:I got to get this.
Speaker C:I'm not going to sleep anyways, so I got to tackle this.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, no, I totally, totally feel you.
Speaker A:So let's chat a little bit about the current opportunities going on at Bear Capital.
Speaker C:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker C:So essentially, it's exactly how I described it.
Speaker C:Bear Capital is a $50 million real estate fund.
Speaker C:I'm taking the lessons that I learned from the value of a diversified portfolio, and I am absolutely applying this to Bear Capital.
Speaker C:We did break it out into two kind of smaller sub funds where one is affordable housing impact and the other one is land and standalone, commercial and industrial.
Speaker C:And the only reason that we did that is some corporations and some companies have a mandate to only do impact and to only do affordable.
Speaker C:So it allows them with an investment vehicle that they can just come into this side of things while we still maintain the concept of diversification.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So, you know, if you have $5 million, you can split it between two funds and you'll have the same diversified experience.
Speaker C:So that's essentially what it is.
Speaker C:Our deal pipeline is always evolving as we go through our capital raise prop base.
Speaker C:We do have, you know, some targeted assets.
Speaker C:We're probably looking to take some under contract pretty quickly.
Speaker C:Those assets really are.
Speaker C:I really like the mixed use concept.
Speaker C:So commercial with multifamily above it.
Speaker C:It helps balance out your multiple layers of affordability that you can introduce.
Speaker C:Because of it, the commercial will support the revenue that you're losing on the affordable side of things.
Speaker C:So you're still able to manage your returns.
Speaker C:There's a land side.
Speaker C:We're looking at a piece of land on Vancouver Island.
Speaker C:There's a piece of land in Edmonton that we're looking at.
Speaker C:The time to invest in real estate is right now like that.
Speaker C:I cannot stress that more.
Speaker C:Everybody has heard everybody knows a number.
Speaker C:It's like in 10 years, Canada is going to have 3.5 million homes that they're short.
Speaker C:That home shortage is going to be centered and focused in on western Canada and in particular the Prairie province.
Speaker C:We have massive migration into this province, something that we've never seen.
Speaker C:We all know about the Alberta bubble.
Speaker C:It's a real thing.
Speaker C:But this time Alberta bubble was always created by oil and gas, but this time it's also supported by migration.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:So we've never seen that.
Speaker C:We've never.
Speaker C:We've always been a place where people would come here to work, but then they would leave and go home wherever their home was.
Speaker C:Now we're seeing people moving into Alberta, moving into Saskatchewan, moving into B.C.
Speaker C:and they're making this their permanent stop.
Speaker C:So there is, there is a demand.
Speaker C:Rental rates are increasing.
Speaker C:I think Edmonton was just voted the fifth most affordable place to live in the world.
Speaker C:And so when people look at affordability, they look at your cost of living, your quality of living, your average salary.
Speaker C:Like they take in that whole component.
Speaker C:So I think it's really going to position Alberta, bc, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, like those are the places that are really going to thrive and they're going to do really, really well.
Speaker C:So that's why I always say, like, this is a time to invest in real estate.
Speaker C:If it's not through me, just do it somewhere.
Speaker C:Go buy a house.
Speaker C:Like, go do something.
Speaker C:But this is the time.
Speaker A:I know there's a lot of people right now who are worried about real estate investment.
Speaker A:Let's get real.
Speaker A:They're worried about investment in general.
Speaker A:I think a lot of people are like, what the heck do we do with our money?
Speaker A:Because nothing seems safe.
Speaker A:Can we chat about that a little bit?
Speaker A:Like, I know it's like with interest rates being up, people have just been concerned about, about all, all investments.
Speaker A:Not just real estate, but definitely.
Speaker A:I hear real estate come up.
Speaker A:Can you maybe speak to.
Speaker A:Speak to their fears a little bit?
Speaker A:Are they unfounded?
Speaker C:No, I would say that in general, like if you're, when you're making an investment, there's a risk profile that goes along with that investment and you have to understand that risk.
Speaker C:So I would be like this.
Speaker C:When you invest in real estate, real estate is one of your more risky investments.
Speaker C:For sure.
Speaker C:It's a big capital gain.
Speaker C:If somebody doesn't know what they're doing.
Speaker C:You can lose your shorts.
Speaker C:Like absolutely lose your shorts.
Speaker C:I've seen it happen time and time again.
Speaker C:I see it happen in land.
Speaker C:You can lose it on dirt.
Speaker C:Like dirt is where your most expensive and most unexpected cost will come through.
Speaker C:I've seen it in vertical.
Speaker C:I myself have experienced it.
Speaker C:I myself personally have failed in real estate.
Speaker C:But it's through those failures where I'm like, oh, I know what I did.
Speaker C:I know where I failed here.
Speaker C:So I would say to anybody, it's like if you're going to invest in real estate, just be know that there's risk associated with it.
Speaker C:Do and manage an entity, determine whether that risk fits your risk profile.
Speaker C:So if you're going to invest in it, but really you're the Most comfortable doing GICs and bonds, don't go put it in real estate.
Speaker C:That is going to cause you so much anxiety and so much grief, it's not worth it.
Speaker C:But if you're okay with the risk, you can make big money.
Speaker C:You can make great returns that you'll never make on a GIC or you'll never make on a bond.
Speaker C:Interest rates are higher.
Speaker C:But I think the good news is now this is my perception and I'm not an economist, but the good news is, is I think we've taken the risk out of interest rates right now.
Speaker C:Interest rates.
Speaker C:Like I was just at a talk with TD bank, they were talking about they're expecting a couple more cuts.
Speaker C:I expect there to be a couple more cuts.
Speaker C:I don't think we're in an escalating interest rate environment now.
Speaker C:I think we're in a decreasing interest rate environment.
Speaker C:But one of the things that we always do is I always, I forecast the bad, but I do not forecast the good.
Speaker C:I always like to be surprised that I made more money.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker C:Like I like that.
Speaker A:Yes, we like tax returns.
Speaker A:We don't like owing tax.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's exactly it.
Speaker C:So I, so for example, in my models and in the fund, we're not forecasting a decrease in interest rates.
Speaker C:Do I think it's going to happen?
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:So will our returns be greater than 20%?
Speaker C:Probably, but right now I'm sticking with my 20.
Speaker C:So it's, I think your, your massive increases in construction costs that we saw after Covid, those have come, they've come through.
Speaker C:They didn't decrease or go away like we would like.
Speaker C:But now we know the market that we're working in.
Speaker C:So now your question is, so you've got costs, you've got interest rate and you have absorption.
Speaker C:So now your question is, do you, do we think we have absorption?
Speaker C:Do we think people are going to buy?
Speaker C:Do you think people are going to rent?
Speaker C:If you think people are going to buy, you think they're going to rent, then this is the right risk profile for you.
Speaker C:If you don't or you don't know, then it's not.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, I think you're completely right.
Speaker A:I think western Canada is beautiful and it's like people are Just realizing that.
Speaker A:And we have the lowest taxes in Canada.
Speaker A:So what are you guys doing?
Speaker A:Oh me too, me too.
Speaker A:I'm Alberta born and raised.
Speaker A:I couldn't imagine being anywhere else.
Speaker C:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know Sophie, I wanted to chat with you about your ideal investor.
Speaker A:We're talking to people around the world.
Speaker A:So first off, do you, do you accept investment from the United States?
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:So we, it's, it's very simple.
Speaker C:So the way that the fund is set up is a gp, general partner, limited partner structure and so it allows income to flow through.
Speaker C:So for, it's very important for our indigenous partners because they're in a different tax situation than let's just say a private corporation.
Speaker C:So we can bring in investment through the United States, we can bring in international investment.
Speaker C:Essentially it's quite simple.
Speaker C:We set up a corporation here and they funnel it to the corporation and then it goes back to their, their home, wherever that is.
Speaker C:So it's actually quite simple.
Speaker C:We are non registered so we have a pretty straightforward way to, to invest through us Our ideal investor of course international.
Speaker C:We have been talking to a few of our partners down in the US US to come in for an investment.
Speaker C:We and so in terms of within Canada we've talked to a lot of first nations and we always encourage a first nation to come in and if you can, can participate in the fund, we do share a portion of the caring interest back to our indigenous partners.
Speaker C:We take private investors.
Speaker C:So we've got a group of private investors that are coming together that could write checks and they're coming in and then we also can take corporations.
Speaker C:So whether, you know, in different, different capacities, corporations could come in and invest in bare capital.
Speaker A:Perfect, perfect.
Speaker A:And you know, I assume you probably have a minimum, what is the minimum investment?
Speaker C:Yeah, so originally our minimum investment was a million dollars.
Speaker C:But it turns out that you know, lots of people can't write that check and lots of these people actually like, so I was like well we're going to have to of this.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So essentially we just look at it on a case by case basis.
Speaker C:Probably not going to take a $50,000 check, but 250 and up would be where we would, we'd be in that range.
Speaker A:Amazing, amazing.
Speaker A:And Sophie, if people want to get a hold of you, they want to invest with you, what is the best way?
Speaker C:So I am very active on LinkedIn and so my LinkedIn profile is up and running.
Speaker C:You can I, I keep a close eye on it so you can get a hold of me through LinkedIn and I will share my personal contact information so you can reach out to me and then we can take it from there.
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker A:And Sophie, one last question for you today, because we are speaking to a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of business development specialists, a lot of people who are involved with growing a business, but maybe they're not growing their own business yet, but they would love to.
Speaker A:They just, they need that, like, little bit of inspiration.
Speaker A:They need a little pep talk.
Speaker A:Can you chat a little bit about what motivated you to take that jump and how you were able to take that jump?
Speaker A:You know, you were a president at another organization, but what was it that allowed you to really take that leap on your own?
Speaker C:So I'm going to make it really simple.
Speaker C:I just believed in myself.
Speaker C:And I always, I, I never, I never needed anybody else to believe in me for me to believe in myself.
Speaker C:And so.
Speaker C:And if you don't, if you don't believe in yourself, then like, what's, what's the point?
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker C:So like, pump yourself up.
Speaker C:This is, this is who you are.
Speaker C:This is who you're meant to be.
Speaker C:And believe in yourself.
Speaker C:And that is like, it's super simple.
Speaker C:I just believed in myself.
Speaker C:Get up, cut out all the noise, cut out all everything else and sit down with yourself and have a conversation with yourself and be like, do you believe you can do this?
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Because you can't be more honest than you are with yourself.
Speaker C:So that's what I would say.
Speaker C:It's like, just, that's all you need.
Speaker C:You just need one thing.
Speaker C:Believe in yourself.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:I agree completely.
Speaker A:I think the one thing that most entrepreneurs have in common is a lot of self confidence.
Speaker A:Because that's really what it takes.
Speaker C:That is what it takes.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:I, yeah, I know we're coming to an end and I want to, I want to leave with this one last thing.
Speaker C:So I, so I had already made this big decision and funny enough, my biggest anxiety over telling anybody, like, I had told my boss I had.
Speaker C:Was ready to go.
Speaker C:I had knew this was going to happen.
Speaker C:But my biggest anxiety was telling my parents, who I had described as like, they union workers.
Speaker C:They were like, just get a good job, get a pension.
Speaker C:That's all you need in life.
Speaker C:So finally I was like, my sister was bugging me.
Speaker C:She was like, you gotta tell them, you gotta tell them.
Speaker C:So finally I was like, okay.
Speaker C:So I sit down, we're like family dinner.
Speaker C:And I was like, okay, mom, dad, I got an announcement to make.
Speaker C:And they're like, oh, God, what now?
Speaker C:Like, what have you done, Sophie?
Speaker C:Like, they always knew, like, because I was always the one dropping all the crazy balls.
Speaker C:Moms.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And they're like, oh my God, what have you done?
Speaker C:And I was like, well, I've left Lounge rx.
Speaker C:And they were like, what?
Speaker C:No, like, freaking out.
Speaker C:And my dad's like, geez, Sophie, like, why are you always moving jobs?
Speaker C:He's like, what are you doing now?
Speaker C:And I said, dad, I'm going to go work for myself.
Speaker C:Well, it's about goddamn time.
Speaker C:You figured out.
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker C:Yeah, it was ridicule.
Speaker C:It was really cute.
Speaker A:That's the right kind of response.
Speaker C:Yeah, it was perfect.
Speaker A:Oh, Sophie, thank you so much for coming on today.
Speaker A:I really, I really love this chat.
Speaker A:And honestly, like, like, I said, thank you for the 101.
Speaker A:Thanks for teaching us on this.
Speaker A:I really hope that everything goes amazing with Bear Capital.
Speaker A:It looks like it already is and is going to continue to do so.
Speaker A:And you know what?
Speaker A:You're a trooper, by the way.
Speaker A:Like, by the time people hear this, they're not going to be able to tell, but you're fighting a pretty wicked cold.
Speaker A:And I just wanted to say thank you so much for.
Speaker A:For coming on and fighting through it.
Speaker A:Like I said, total trooper.
Speaker C:Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker C:I really appreciate this.
Speaker C:I love this.
Speaker C:This has made my day.
Speaker C:It's been wonderful.
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker A:Until next time, this has been episode 212 of the Business development podcast and we will catch you on the side.
Speaker B:This has been the business development podcast with Kelly Kennedy.
Speaker B: business development firm in: Speaker B:His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development.
Speaker B:The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your business development specialists.
Speaker B:For more, we invite you to the website at www.capitalbd.ca.
Speaker B:see you next time on the business development podcast.
