Episode 214
The Goodlawyer Revolution: How Brett Colvin is Fixing Legal for Entrepreneurs
Episode 214 of The Business Development Podcast features Brett Colvin, CEO and co-founder of GoodLawyer, who is on a mission to fix what’s broken in the legal industry. Brett shares his journey from corporate lawyer at one of Canada’s largest firms to disrupting the status quo with a smarter, more accessible legal model. He explains how traditional law firms operate on outdated structures that leave both businesses and lawyers frustrated—leading to a staggering statistic that half of all lawyers leave the profession within five years. With GoodLawyer, Brett is pioneering fractional legal services, offering businesses high-quality, in-house-style legal support without the overwhelming costs of big firms.
In this episode, Brett and I dive into why the current legal system doesn’t work for most entrepreneurs, the biggest legal blind spots that hurt growing businesses, and how his company is giving both lawyers and clients more flexibility and value. We discuss the power of transparent pricing, the challenges of building a legal tech startup, and why Brett believes the future of legal is changing fast. If you’re a business owner, startup founder, or just someone who has struggled with legal services, this episode will give you insights into a better way forward.
Key Takeaways:
1. The traditional legal model is outdated and doesn’t serve entrepreneurs effectively.
2. Half of all lawyers leave the profession within five years due to burnout and lack of fulfillment.
3. Law firms take 80% of the value from billable hours, leaving both lawyers and clients frustrated.
4. Fractional legal services provide businesses with in-house-style legal support at a fraction of the cost.
5. Transparent, upfront pricing removes friction and helps businesses make smarter legal decisions.
6. Lawyers can make more money and have better work-life balance outside of traditional law firms.
7. A strong legal foundation early on prevents costly mistakes for startups and small businesses.
8. Innovation in the legal industry is possible but requires breaking away from outdated structures.
9. Business owners often don’t realize they need legal help until it’s too late.
10. The future of law is changing fast, and entrepreneurs need flexible legal solutions to keep up.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Good Lawyer
- Capital Business Development
- Calgary Chamber
- Globe and Mail
Transcript
Welcome to episode 214 of the Business Development Podcast.
Speaker A:And today we're diving into the world of legal innovation with Brett Colvin, the co founder and CEO of Good Lawyer.
Speaker A:Brett saw firsthand the inefficiencies of traditional legal services and set out to build a smarter, more accessible way for businesses to get legal support.
Speaker A:His journey from big law firm associate to tech founder is is nothing short of inspiring.
Speaker A:Stick with us.
Speaker A:You are not going to want to miss this episode.
Speaker B:The great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years.
Speaker B:Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal.
Speaker B:And we couldn't agree more.
Speaker B:This is the Business Development Podcast based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and broadcasting to the world.
Speaker B:You'll get expert business development advice, tips and experiences and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs and business development reps.
Speaker B:You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business brought to you by Capital Business Development capitalbd ca.
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker B:Welcome to the Business Development Podcast.
Speaker B:And now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.
Speaker A:Hello.
Speaker A:Welcome to episode 214 of the Business Development Podcast and for today's expert guest interview, I am bringing you Brett Colvin.
Speaker A:Brett is a pioneering force in the legal tech industry, serving as the co founder and CEO of Good Lawyer.
Speaker A:With over four years of experience as a corporate lawyer at Canada's largest law firm, Brett witnessed firsthand the inefficiencies and frustrations that plague traditional legal services.
Speaker A: the conventional path and in: Speaker A:Under his leadership, Good Lawyer has grown into a formidable team of over 20 employees and 140 plus lawyers delivering innovative legal solutions to over 5,000 clients across Canada.
Speaker A:Good Lawyer, with its unique fractional GC and fractional in house services, is revolutionizing the legal landscape by offering flexible part time legal expertise tailored to the specific needs of businesses.
Speaker A:This groundbreaking approach combined with transparent flat rate pricing has earned Brett and Good Lawyer several prestigious accolades including the Small Business of the Year award by the Calgary Chamber and recognition as Canada's 35th top growing business by Globe and Mail.
Speaker A:Brett Colvin's journey from corporate lawyer to visionary CEO is a testament to his unwavering commitment to making legal services far more efficient and accessible.
Speaker A:In Brett Colvin, the legal industry has not just found a disruptor, but a true innovator dedicated to transforming how lawyers and businesses collaborate.
Speaker A:Brett, it's an honor to have you on the show, Kelly.
Speaker C:That was a hell of an intro.
Speaker C:And happy to be here, my friend.
Speaker A:Thank you very much.
Speaker A:You're doing a hell of a job, let me just say.
Speaker C:Well, the one note I got to give you is we're over 170 lawyers in the network now.
Speaker A:Holy cow.
Speaker A:My information is out of date.
Speaker A:Congratulations.
Speaker A:That's unreal.
Speaker A:My gosh.
Speaker A:You know, we talked about this.
Speaker A:At this point, we.
Speaker A:We started communicating, I think, back in May.
Speaker A:So we're recording right now.
Speaker A:It's aug or it's July 19th.
Speaker A:So it's been a few months since we.
Speaker A:Since we init chatted.
Speaker A:But, dude, I've been.
Speaker A:I've been excited to have this conversation with you.
Speaker A:You're right in Calgary, which is super cool.
Speaker C:Yeah, no, I've been happy.
Speaker C:Looking forward to this as well, my friend.
Speaker C:And, you know, if we can be growing as fast as this podcast, then we're doing something right.
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker A:I mean, you guys are doing pretty damn well.
Speaker A:I'm just gonna say we're gonna chat about the yacht party, because that sounded pretty awesome.
Speaker A:But before we get into that today, you know, I just wanted to say we.
Speaker A:We've only ever had one other legal expert on this show.
Speaker A:We had Steve.
Speaker A:Steve Monk from CEO Law come on quite a while ago.
Speaker A:Like, I want to say at this point, probably somewhere around 150 episodes ago.
Speaker A:So it's been a minute since we've talked law on the business development podcast.
Speaker A:But you know what?
Speaker A:It's important, and it's something that, frankly, many of us business owners struggle to understand, me included, about, you know, when do we need it?
Speaker A:What do we need it for?
Speaker A:What are the situations that we should be considering getting some legal support, you know, and what are situations that we're just.
Speaker A:We're going through it, and we don't even know we need help.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, there's so much there.
Speaker A:Plus, you went from lawyer to essentially tech founder, which is also super cool.
Speaker A:And I just want to chat about all of that today.
Speaker A:But before we get into it, you know, who is Brett Colvin?
Speaker A:How did you end up on this path?
Speaker C:Brett Colvin is my brother, and my mother are both psychologists, and we played like a.
Speaker C:A quasi personality game over the holidays a while back, and you basically land on the animal that is most like you with the attributes.
Speaker C:And I landed as a peacock and badger, which felt pretty.
Speaker C:Pretty appropriate.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, I've always been a little entrepreneur growing up.
Speaker C:Started selling golf balls when I was four and started Running landscaping businesses, rolled that into a painting franchise before law school.
Speaker C:And always just loved business, Love cutting deals, loved building a team and, and just really knew from a pretty early age that I had a passion for entrepreneurship, for building a business that, frankly, I would say is.
Speaker C:Is a little bit unconventional in the world of law, which is definitely a more conservative space and, you know, can be very lucrative, but definitely lacking in, I would say, true entrepreneurs, because not many of us are willing to go to school for seven years.
Speaker C:And then also just a lack of innovation, which I have, you know, perceived from very early in my legal career, can be attributed to just the incentive models and how things in the more conventional traditional law firm structure are set up.
Speaker C:And I'm a big believer in incentives.
Speaker C:And when you don't have the incentives to innovate, why innovate?
Speaker C:And, you know, I think that's why there's this huge opportunity for good lawyer to change the dynamic for businesses and lawyers alike and, and provide something that, you know, offers more flexibility and more freedom than ever before.
Speaker A:Agreed.
Speaker A:And, you know, I feel like when I chatted with Steve, he had mentioned too that, like, he had seen a lot of challenges in with law firms and frankly, with lawyers and just struggling with everybody being unhappy.
Speaker A:Like, the law firms weren't happy, the lawyers weren't happy, the customers weren' happy.
Speaker A:Like, it was just, it was this, like, mess of unhappiness.
Speaker A:Can we just chat like this?
Speaker A:So long ago since I talked to Steve.
Speaker A:Can we just chat about it?
Speaker A:What is the state of corporate law in Canada right now?
Speaker C:Well, I.
Speaker C:I might start with saying that it's more profitable than ever before.
Speaker C:So there's definitely folks at the sort of top of the pyramid making lots of money.
Speaker C:And, you know, for, I think, certain personalities, it, it is a really good fit.
Speaker C:The problem I see is that it forces everyone down the exact same path.
Speaker C:Certainly in the big law firms, in house is definitely a bit more varied.
Speaker C:But in that big corporate law Context, your first 10 years, you are there to take orders and bill hours and hit targets.
Speaker C:And then, you know, if you stick around long enough, one day, you know, you become the mythical equity partner, and then you can start making money by bringing in business.
Speaker C:The problem with that often is that first 10 years, nobody is really prioritizing you bringing in business.
Speaker C:And then all of a sudden there's this new expectation to, you know, be a rainmaker.
Speaker C:And again, what I saw when I was there, you know, maybe that path is ideal for a small subset of the lawyers that you Know, I worked with, that I started my career with.
Speaker C:But there was a majority who I know from, you know, the friendships and, and very intimate conversations I've had with many folks that charted a similar path in those early days that are, you know, disillusioned and, and not excited to, to pursue this career.
Speaker C:And you know, I think our CEO Josh is, is a great example.
Speaker C: ate lawyer and when I left in: Speaker C:When I managed to recruit him and convince him to join the good lawyer journey a couple years later, the firm definitely wept a little more because he was sort of the epitome of, of what, you know, the leaders in the firm were looking for in their future leaders and everyone's money was a Josh being a managing partner one day.
Speaker C:But I think him leaving and joining us is just a huge statement or reflection on that path not being, you know, maybe all it's cracked up to be for, for most of us.
Speaker C:And you know, our mission is to build the most desirable way to practice law and really have this intense focus on delivering a new experience, a new career opportunity for lawyers that you know, are incredible practitioners, but maybe didn't want to, you know, slave away 60, 80 hours a week for the next 20 years or you know, move into a full time in house role that felt like they were not fully utilizing their skill sets and trying to provide this in between option that provide them tremendous flexibility, especially for lawyers that you know, want to raise their kids, want to travel, you know, maybe have older parents they got to take care of just providing something that isn't all or nothing.
Speaker C:And you know, we have lawyers on the fractional side of things that you know, are absolutely crushing it and have a desire to work as hard as they can, make as much money as they, as they can, and you know, we're happy to support that.
Speaker C:But we also have lawyers that, you know, they're looking for something more flexible, maybe a couple days a week that, you know, allows them to be super mom and a really good lawyer.
Speaker C:And it's not this all or nothing sort of scenario anymore.
Speaker C:So that's a little bit of color on the big firm experience.
Speaker C:And then the final thing I'll just mention is, you know, I was probably the only associate at the firm that was doing that frankly, pretty simple math to say I'm billing out as a fourth year at 550.
Speaker C:If I look at my paycheck and I run the math, I'm putting about 65 bucks in my pocket.
Speaker C:Where's the rest of it going?
Speaker C:And you know, I love the Bezos line.
Speaker C:Like your margin is my opportunity and, and that is a lot of margin to play with.
Speaker A:Totally, totally.
Speaker A:Yeah, I can imagine when you're, when you're looking at that, you're probably feeling a little bit taken advantage of in that moment.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean in that circumstance, I mean you know, lawyers are certainly well paid but, but they earn it, you know, a little different than, than maybe the I bankers who I know work hard too, but the payday is way bigger especially in the early days.
Speaker C:Lawyer, big law, corporate lawyers, they earn those dollars especially in the early years and again it's, it's just like a license to bill.
Speaker C:And that was not how I wanted to approach my life and, and my career and my contribution.
Speaker C:I, I could not stand the fact that you know, my life was sort of delineated into 6 minute intervals and there was no room for creativity or you know, innovation and, and I felt incredibly caged in that environment.
Speaker C:And that's what we're trying to, to really rectify here on our, on our good Lord journey.
Speaker A:I love it and I can't wait to explore that more with you.
Speaker A:I like really what I want to know though, like I think from an outside view, we don't know.
Speaker A:Like we have no idea as like, as a non lawyer, like looking at a lawyer might, it might, might as well be looking at a doctor.
Speaker A:Like you don't have a good understanding of what it is they're doing.
Speaker A:Can you maybe just like run us through what is a day in the life of a lawyer?
Speaker A:What does that look like?
Speaker A:Like it sounds to me like it's crazy, crazy busy.
Speaker C:I mean there's no way to really answer that question because there's so many different varieties.
Speaker C:Even within, you know, the 170 lawyers that are practicing through good lawyer now, there's such a insane variety of what those lawyers are doing on a day to day basis.
Speaker C:I mean in, in the, you know, if I, if I track back to my time in the big firm, you know, you're getting in at 8:30, fully suited, you're, you're going into your office, you're closing the door, you're crushing 10, 12 hours, hopefully you're billing most of those and then you know, you're going home and you're coming back the next day and rinse and repeating.
Speaker C:Maybe not overly surprisingly, I was probably the most social butterfly at the firm.
Speaker C:So my, my utilization was definitely lower than most because I was Building and developing relationships on.
Speaker C:But know for most folks it was come in, close the door, bill the hours, go home, come back, do it again.
Speaker C:And then the third bucket being like the full time in house lawyers that also I would say looks a lot different than way different than full time big law private practice and quite a bit different than, than the fractional offering we have which again provides more flexibility but also more variability in, in the types of clients that you're working with because you, you know, have a few on your plate as opposed to just one that you're serving as a full time employee and in the in house realm, such a wide variety of what those roles look like.
Speaker C:But I, you know, I think being a general counsel or an AGC or you know, a senior legal leader in a cool business is a really rewarding experience because you don't just focus on the law like you would in private practice.
Speaker C:It's not all about the law.
Speaker C:It's about the law and its intersection with the business.
Speaker C:And you know, that's why the folks that we're recruiting for fractional 95 of the time have been in house, have been GCs and understand what it means to, you know, move the business forward with a legal lens attached to it as opposed to, you know, writing 10 page memos that highlight every risk under the sun.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, my gosh, like that sounds like incredibly challenging.
Speaker A:Do you ever experience burnout?
Speaker A:Like to me that seems like a recipe for burnout, man.
Speaker A:Like that seems very, very challenging.
Speaker C:Not really.
Speaker C:I, I, I said I would say that I experience boredom more than burnout, to be honest.
Speaker C:I've, I've always been, I've always been a hard worker.
Speaker C:I definitely got, got a, a major grinder element to me and, and I, and I love working if I believe in the thing that I'm working on.
Speaker C:So whether it was running that painting franchise before law school and obsessing, every time I'm driving down the street, looking at every house, being like, that guy needs a paint job, that guy needs a paint job to building good lawyer where you know, I don't, I don't really have a work life balance because it's all, you know, it's more that work life harmony where it's all kind of fused together and, and that works really well for me because I'm so passionate and have such a great team building this thing that didn't really exist before.
Speaker C:So for me it wasn't the hours, it wasn't the grind, it was the, the lack of inspiration and the Feeling that my only job was really to, to punch in those point ones and those six minute intervals.
Speaker C:And that just wasn't quite doing it for me.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I can totally understand that too.
Speaker A:And it's a completely different animal when it's your, when it's your baby, right?
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Like, I think there's something about running your own business that gives you a motivation unlike anything you've ever had before.
Speaker A:And, you know, we can chat about that.
Speaker A: But take me back to: Speaker A:Like, take me back to that, you know, I mean, you're a, you're a, you're a lawyer and at, at a big firm at one of Canada's largest firms.
Speaker A:And man, like, you're gonna go out on your own.
Speaker A:Like, that must have been a really hard decision for you to make.
Speaker A:Like, you'd.
Speaker A:Are you, like you said, went to school for seven years, you'd already earned your keep at this organization, and now you're just gonna sit like.
Speaker A:I could see that being a incredibly, incredibly challenging choice.
Speaker A:Talk to me about that.
Speaker C:It wasn't, it wasn't.
Speaker C:It honestly wasn't that hard to make.
Speaker C:I think the timing of it was a little bit stressful, but there was just such a degree of certainty that I couldn't build the future for myself or the impact I was going to have within that context.
Speaker C:The final straw for me, because I'd been noodling this good boy idea for a long time, and within the firm, you know, I was unaffectionately known as Mr.
Speaker C:Ideas Guy, which I can assure you is not a compliment.
Speaker C:And I did try numerous times to put forward, you know, I'd say varying degrees of difficulty, but put forward ideas that I thought could, you know, serve our clients better, serve our, our lawyers within the firm better, whether it was mentorship, whether it was different incentive models, whether it was just using like the tiniest amount of technology to automate the most mundane aspects of my job.
Speaker C:And I was either not responded to with those ideas at all or shut down.
Speaker C:And it just got to a point where I was certainly feeling frustrated.
Speaker C:And again, from, I think the firm and the, you know, the, the big dog partners perspective, a little bit too big for my britches as a, you know, young associate trying to share all of his ideas to the guys that have been around the block for a long time.
Speaker C:And really the final straw for me that I was getting to was one of the senior guys, effectively my boss, coming in my office one day and slamming the door and just saying, brett, keep coming up with your ideas, just keep to yourself.
Speaker C:And oh, wow, that was kind of like the last draw.
Speaker C:So I knew at that moment I was like, all right, they don't even want to hear the ideas anymore.
Speaker C:I really got to seriously start planning my exit.
Speaker C:And, you know, it didn't happen immediately, but it was about six months later I was able to raise a little bit of dough from my first investor.
Speaker C:And, you know, I found my, my two original co founders.
Speaker C:Grant came on later, but Tom and Parker, a developer and a designer, you know, kind of like the Airbnb trio.
Speaker C:And it was about six months later that I quit my job, got the dough in, in the Good Lawyer bank account and, you know, started plugging away at the, as you noted in the intro, the.
Speaker C:The kitchen table with my co founders.
Speaker C:And we haven't looked back since.
Speaker A:That's amazing, dude.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker A:You know, talk to me though, like, what gave you the idea for Good Lawyer?
Speaker A:You know, like, obviously law had been done a certain way for a very, very long time, bringing technology to it, essentially creating Good Lawyer, going to a fractional system.
Speaker A:Like, I had not even heard of that before a couple years ago.
Speaker A:Like, to me it seems like a very new idea.
Speaker A:How were you able to come up with this idea?
Speaker C:Well, I would say that that's kind of like a, a series of compounding ideas.
Speaker C:So I'll tell you the name story in a second.
Speaker C:But we didn't start with fractional.
Speaker C:Fractional is really something that emerged close to two years ago in our business.
Speaker C:And, you know, it started rolling and we jumped on it full force because it was such a, such a different and valuable offering for, for the right type of customer or the right type of client.
Speaker C:So, you know, if there's any startup founders, you know, listening, you can call it a pivot.
Speaker C:But I would, I would, I conceive of it in my mind more as an evolution because I don't think we've really totally pivoted away from what we were doing in the early days, but it really has evolved and become the priority for the business developing this, this fractional GC and fractional in house offering because it just serves the lawyers that were on a mission to help the best.
Speaker C:It provides them a level of stability and security that, that they're looking for.
Speaker C:And on the client side, it's just this like 10x offering in the right circumstance where you can have a senior in house lawyer who used to work at the big firm and then worked in house in your industry come in and you Know, for a couple hundred bucks an hour instead of a thousand bucks an hour, really become an extension of your executive team and, and provide you this in house legal muscle that you just didn't have before and you know, visit development podcast.
Speaker C:I would say one of the most common places where we're placing fractional DCS today is where you have a company doing a ton of larger and larger and faster and faster enterprise sales contracts.
Speaker C:And it gets to a point where sending those contracts out to the firm or getting your CFO to review them just becomes untenable.
Speaker C:And slotting in a lawyer that can help you close deals faster on better terms becomes, you know, less of a cost center and more of an opportunity unlock that, you know, drives a tremendous amount of value for these technology scale ups and mid market companies that we're working with.
Speaker C:If I jump back where good lawyers started, I bought the domains like the website and the name and everything back in first year law school, which is like a decade ago.
Speaker C:I didn't know what it was going to be for yet, but that's where it came from.
Speaker C:My old coffee guy, be a good lawyer, he said, and it stuck.
Speaker C:And really the original idea was, was so simple, fixed fee transparent, small business legal services and then that turned into much larger projects and then that rolled into fractional eventually.
Speaker C:But really that was the idea on day one was, you know, having run the paying franchise and learned how to estimate services and getting to law and having this sort of wild experience of nobody estimating anything and just hitting the clock.
Speaker C:I'll send you the bill later.
Speaker C:It just didn't make any sense to me.
Speaker C:Watching a lawyer hire a lawyer, by the way, is a pretty funny experience.
Speaker C:But really that was the premise, was let's provide more cost effective and even more importantly, upfront transparent pricing for the legal services.
Speaker C:Because as the service providers, as the lawyers, we should know how long something's going to take, give or take.
Speaker C:We should understand like, you know, what the spectrum of pricing should look like better than the client who, you know, I don't like the term non lawyer, but then the non lawyer and you know, I think from a risk sharing perspective, the expert should be able to take on more risk than the non expert in this case than the client.
Speaker C:And what I think a lot of lawyers don't realize is the friction associated with the way that they deliver and bill services, you know, billable hours prevents a lot of people from hiring them and leaves a terrible taste in their mouth post.
Speaker C:So that was the original idea, was just let's build a marketplace predicated on fixed fee legal services at better rates.
Speaker C:Let's cut the law firm out because then we can strip out all of that margin, all of that overhead I alluded to earlier.
Speaker C:And let's provide a better legal experience for these, you know, businesses that are, that are moving fast and need that legal expertise.
Speaker C:And at the same time, let's provide a new avenue for these independent lawyers who, you know, cut their teeth in places like I did, but have decided to pursue a more entrepreneurial sort of career themselves.
Speaker C:And let's support them in that endeavor.
Speaker A:My gosh.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:I love it, dude.
Speaker A:I absolutely love it.
Speaker A:And from a business standpoint, at least, being able to have an idea.
Speaker A:And I get it.
Speaker A:Not every project goes to plan and, and not every project goes to plan in any organization or any industry or any business.
Speaker A:And so there are probably going to be caveats where it doesn't go exactly to plan.
Speaker A:And the quote isn't exactly perfect.
Speaker A:But it's still great to know that this is probably most likely what you are looking at.
Speaker A:And I feel like you're right.
Speaker A:It's like in my experiences of dealing with lawyers throughout my life, it has been, I don't know, like, this is our rate per hour.
Speaker A:We're going to get to this and we're going to do it as long as it takes to get it done.
Speaker A:And yeah, you're right.
Speaker A:From like a standpoint of, of a buyer of that service, it's like, okay, this sucks.
Speaker A:I only want to do this if I have no other choice.
Speaker A:So being able to like, clarify and say, like, here's the cost, we think it will be, obviously, you know, I mean, there's always caveats.
Speaker A:There's always situations that go a little longer, maybe a little shorter, but it's still good to at least know that number, know what you're getting yourself into.
Speaker A:So I think, dude, like, just from like a business standpoint, you were already on the right path.
Speaker A:And I don't know why, like, it seems silly to me that all lawyers are not looking at it from this standpoint at this point.
Speaker C:Well, I mean, you know, imagine the plumber coming over to your house to fix your toilet and he just closes the door and he's like, I'm gonna let you know how much it costs when I'm done.
Speaker C:Like, it's just lunacy.
Speaker C:There's almost no other service where it's just a blank check.
Speaker C:Tell me how much it is later.
Speaker C:And you know, again, for, for, you know, if you're A good, experienced lawyer and you know, you work with businesses or you work with startups, whatever, and you've done, you know, a thousand shareholders agreements in the past.
Speaker C:Why can't you pick a price that you know, you know you're going to make some money on and it might be a little more or a little less, you know, for the time you're putting in, because there's always a little bit of variation.
Speaker C:And you know, in the construction industry and in a lot of different service industries, we have something very effective at dealing with wild scope changes.
Speaker C:And it's called a change order.
Speaker C:And you know, if there's a wild scope change, then you can provide a change order.
Speaker C:Everybody can agree to the scope change, the change order and you carry on your merry way.
Speaker C:But when you have huge projects, billion dollar projects that are getting quoted, the idea that a lawyer can't give you a quote on a shareholders agreement for, you know, a three person business to me was, was completely insane and frankly just like a lazy approach to business.
Speaker C:And you know, you don't have to have a business degree to go to law and I'd say that, you know, a bunch do.
Speaker C:But many folks that, you know, are in big line and private practice are incredibly smart people.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:But they've never been taught a whole lot about business.
Speaker C:And you know, there's already this sort of risk, adverse nature to your average lawyer kind of built in.
Speaker C:It's also, you know, what lawyers are kind of there to do, which is to mitigate risk.
Speaker C:But it goes over the top when it comes to how many, not all, but many lawyers service their clients.
Speaker C:And you know, I didn't view it as sort of a negative for the business, obviously providing fixed fee quotes.
Speaker C:I viewed it as this huge opportunity because there was an appetite for it in the market.
Speaker C:There was an appetite for good lawyers at good prices and with the level of transparency that frankly, I was stunned not to see when I arrived in the profession, know, almost a decade ago.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:No, like it makes, it makes a ton of sense.
Speaker A:I guess the challenge that I see and I want to chat with you about it is obviously if, if classic law firms are doing things the same way, they're incredibly profitable.
Speaker A:Blank checks.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:On a certain level, wouldn't a lawyer be better off to work for them long term than to work for someplace like good lawyer?
Speaker A:And just hear me out on this.
Speaker A:I'm not trying to like knock anything.
Speaker A:I'm just trying to say like the way that you're doing it is the right way.
Speaker A:No Question.
Speaker A:But it's clearly the hard way, too.
Speaker A:It's clearly the more challenging route to take.
Speaker A:And doing fractional, I imagine, being a little bit more challenging to kind of keep it all rolling.
Speaker A:Can you chat a little bit about what.
Speaker A:What your incentives have been to the.
Speaker A:To the lawyers to get them on your team?
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, I've got enormous.
Speaker C:Probably like your podcast lineup of lawyers that want to join the Good Lawyer Network.
Speaker C:And I think that is a reflection of, you know, the brand we built this, you know, the.
Speaker C:The services and the experiences that we're delivering for.
Speaker C:For lawyers and clients.
Speaker C:But fundamentally, it kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier, which is there's one track in the big firm.
Speaker C:There's one track, and that track is hitting your, you know, 2,000 billable hours a year for a decade and then being brought into the infamous partnership and, you know, starting to be at the top of the pyramid and starting to be able to extract some of.
Speaker C:Some of that value that you were putting in for.
Speaker C:For years and years.
Speaker C:And, you know, again, when I look at the.
Speaker C:The breakdown of even what equity partners take on the work that they do, I would say.
Speaker C:And, you know, don't fully quote me on this, because this is more anecdotal from many, many, many conversations I've had with lawyers.
Speaker C:But your lawyers in the big firms are taking, typically, if you're a junior associate, you know, 15 to 20% of their billable rate goes into their pocket.
Speaker C:And it's all roundabout, right, because you're on a salary, you have a target hit.
Speaker C:And so it's not like you bill an hour and then you get to take that 65, 70 bucks out of it.
Speaker C:But if you just run the math, it's so simple.
Speaker C:What's my salary?
Speaker C:What's my bonus?
Speaker C:How many hours I bill?
Speaker C:Divide that boom.
Speaker C:That is your effective unit rate, your take of every hour you're billing.
Speaker C:And yeah, for an associate in a big firm, you're looking at 15 to 20%.
Speaker C:You're keeping more senior partners.
Speaker C:You're probably looking at, you know, keeping 30% of that.
Speaker C:And where the senior guys make all the money is on originating new work and then getting the benefit of being the rainmaker and getting, you know, there's 80%, 85% margin there on the associate time.
Speaker C:So some of that has to go to the rainmaker, some of that goes to the firm, and then some of that goes to just excessive amounts of overhead.
Speaker C:And, you know, I think if you asked the managing partners of.
Speaker C:Of the firms around town how much they're spending on their lease.
Speaker C:Like they would be a little bit red in the face to tell you how much they're, they're dropping on that.
Speaker C:Not to mention the paintings and all, all the good stuff.
Speaker A:Okay, okay.
Speaker A:No, that makes a lot more sense.
Speaker A:So essentially if, if the lawyers come and work for you, either way, they're making a better margin than they ever could at a larger firm.
Speaker C:Way better.
Speaker C:But, but I think the kicker is, is that, but because we take it, we flip it, we flip that on, on its head.
Speaker C: So instead of us keeping: Speaker C:So what that does is it changes the whole pricing dynamic.
Speaker C:And with fractional, it's amazing because we're able to embed people in like huge blocks multiple days a week.
Speaker C:But really the value that we're offering to lawyers is an ability to make really good money in whatever way fits their life.
Speaker C:So again, if you're in the firm, you can make a lot of money, no question about it.
Speaker C:But there's sort of a minimum requirement that is a very big requirement.
Speaker C:And you know the phrase that you'll hear all the time if you're working in a big firm, it's the golden handcuffs.
Speaker C:And it's this idea that, you know, you start making more and more money, you can't really conceive of how you could make more money elsewhere.
Speaker C:You might be discontent, but then you buy the house, then you buy the car, and now you're locked in because you have no idea how you could make 3, 400 grand in any other sort of avenue.
Speaker C:But to, to make that, you know, again, you're working 60 hours a week and you're giving up your weekends, you're not at your kids recital.
Speaker C:Like you just give up so much to get that paycheck.
Speaker C:And if you look at the economics on that paycheck, 80% of that value is, is going to the rainmaker and the firm and just chopping that dynamic up completely and creating a situation where, you know, all of these lawyers who don't want that because there's more to their lives, they, they, they want to pursue or support or do other things.
Speaker C:That avenue just didn't really exist.
Speaker C:And a crazy stat is roughly half of lawyers that start, you know, a career in the profession leave.
Speaker C:And at some point in the first five years, they, or I think I can't remember, it was five or 10 years, but they're gone.
Speaker C:Half of lawyers exit the profession because they've had Enough.
Speaker C:And these are in many cases like incredibly talented practitioners.
Speaker C:And we provided an opportunity to bring some of those folks back and catch some of them before, before they leave.
Speaker A:My God.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's huge.
Speaker A:That like, to me that's, that's definitely a leading indicator that there's something serious.
Speaker C:I don't think half of doctors stop being doctors, you know?
Speaker A:No, no.
Speaker A:And like, man, I couldn't imagine making that choice.
Speaker A:Like you said, like the time commitment just to becoming a lawyer.
Speaker A:What'd you say, seven years?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Walking away from that is like walking away from a quarter of your life.
Speaker C:And I mean, you know, we just had a nice milestone a couple days ago.
Speaker C:We had our first lawyer who started with us about three years ago, hit a million bucks just over the platform.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:You know, I've got lawyers, I've got lawyers making a quarter million bucks in Costa Rica working 30 hours a week.
Speaker C:And a quarter million goes really, really far in Costa Rica.
Speaker C:And the funniest part is that the clients that they're working with are saving an insane amount of money.
Speaker C:So you have the situation where lawyers can make great dough, clients can save an insane amount and good lawyer, because we're very long term oriented, can make enough to sustain the business and keep propelling us forward.
Speaker C:Because for us it's all about scalability and building something really big really fast.
Speaker C:And I don't need to take 80% to do that.
Speaker C:I can be significantly fairer, more transparent and we can build an incredible business that is, you know, really driven by technology and efficiency in a way that, you know, I think would probably bewilder a lot of the folks at the firms.
Speaker A:Well, well, you showed them, dude, again.
Speaker C:And I, and I really do, I really do think that there is a place for the big firms.
Speaker C:And this, you know, kind of bringing up Josh again really opened my eyes to and where we excel and where, where they excel.
Speaker C:And for us, you know, I feel less competitive with the big firms than ever before because the focus of our business today is really embedding that in house legal talent.
Speaker C:And no lawyer at any firm would really perceive the general counsel of one of their institutional clients as a competitor that is their best client.
Speaker C:And we are embedding senior legal talent in an in house way that to me is really targeted at the bulk of run and grow the business legal work.
Speaker C:Whereas the, you know, the firms make the big bucks, the highest margins and the work they want to do is typically are almost always predicated on the big transactions and the big disputes.
Speaker C:So if you're doing, you know, your IPO or you're doing this $100 million M&A transaction, I'm going to send you to my old buddies at one of the big shops because that is what they are built to do.
Speaker C:Same thing.
Speaker C:If there's a huge dispute, I'm sending that to one of my buddies at a different shop who you know is the best litigator in town in this area because that is not our focus.
Speaker C:But when you have an overwhelming amount of legal need internally because you're signing contracts, you're hiring people, you're in a regulatory, you know, regulated environment, that is the stuff where having a lawyer really close to the business, to your product team, to your sales guy like that is where an in house lawyer really thrives and where we've been really orienting, you know, our solutions over the last couple years.
Speaker A:Yeah, let's, let's lead into it.
Speaker A:So what is Good Lawyer?
Speaker A:Like who are your ideal clients?
Speaker A:What is the service offering?
Speaker A:Run us through it.
Speaker C:Good Lawyer today is Canada's leader in fractional legal talent.
Speaker C:And we are starting to dip our toes into the US market.
Speaker C:But really where we, where we specialize and where we are sort of, I think leading the way is taking former big law ideally with in house experience.
Speaker C:So you know, they cut their teeth like I did in the big firm because I do think that that is like not ideal but a pretty intense training ground.
Speaker C:And then they've, you know, continue to develop their skills within a business, ideally a high, high growth business, and have really learned how to not just be technical but also to be practical when it comes to understanding business priorities and, and risk tolerance and things like that.
Speaker C:And so for us being the best place for those types of lawyers to come and thrive, that is what we are all about today.
Speaker C:And embedding those guys and gals into companies on a part time, in house, in a part time, in house way has been hugely valuable for the businesses that we're working with.
Speaker C:And I think it's why fractional GC is growing so fast right now.
Speaker C:There's some variance here a little bit, but if you're a company with 30, 50, up to 250, 300 employees and you know you're spending over 50 grand on legal services and you still have your CFO or your CEO or some executive reading contracts because you don't quite want to send them out, that is like our bread and butter where let's put somebody in, let's reduce that overall legal spend and more importantly, let's unlock your executives by taking away this legal portfolio that, you know, they don't really love managing, they weren't trained to manage, and frankly is taking them away from where their best uses for the business.
Speaker C:Perfect.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I think I have a much better understanding of kind of how it works.
Speaker A:In our earlier conversation though, you had mentioned that, like, one of the, one of the big things that you have leveraged is technology.
Speaker A:Can you run me through the technological aspects of, of Good Lawyer?
Speaker C:For sure.
Speaker C:So I kind of talked about earlier the, the starting point for Good Lawyer, the Fixed Fee Marketplace.
Speaker C:So you can really think about Good Lawyer as two very closely tied business lines.
Speaker C:Fixed Fee Marketplace, which I would say is the starting point for all the small businesses that we work with.
Speaker C:They're not ready for, you know, a fractional mandate that's like monthly recurring and, and, you know, I would say a significantly larger commitment.
Speaker C:Fixed Fee Marketplace.
Speaker C:You can come in and pretty much buy anything from, you know, shareholders agreement, advice session all the way up to, you know, a small M and a transaction, things like that.
Speaker C:So the marketplace is what serves projects and those earlier stage businesses.
Speaker C:And we built a platform, you know, for.
Speaker C:In an overly simplistic way.
Speaker C:You can kind of picture it as like Airbnb for business, Legal Services, Fixed Fee Marketplace.
Speaker C:And then on the other side, we're developing technology to help the fractional lawyers that are in our network run their business.
Speaker C:So there are little touch points with the client on the fractional app, but it really is more of a productivity tool for fractional lawyers to.
Speaker C:And for our operations team.
Speaker C:Because for us, you know, we're not selling a SaaS service.
Speaker C:We're selling a solution for everybody.
Speaker C:And for the lawyer on the fractional side, that is the platform.
Speaker C:And our operations team in the background and our account management team in the background offloading a lot of the responsibilities that lawyers don't really like to do.
Speaker C:Some of the client management, definitely the billing, the invoicing, the docketing, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker C:So those are the two technology platforms that we've built and continue to iterate on every single day.
Speaker A:My gosh, what was it like?
Speaker A:What was it like trying to develop these things?
Speaker A:Right, like you came from a legal background, obviously, you know, you were an entrepreneur before that.
Speaker A:But like, you came from a legal background.
Speaker A:What was it like to essentially start a tech company?
Speaker C:Hard.
Speaker C:Hard.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And, and, you know, I think I would say, you know, when I think of kind of my, my skills and, and, and where I thrive, you know, sales, marketing, Building the team.
Speaker C:Those are things that I would say are like in my wheelhouse, building and designing a software platform definitely outside of my core wheelhouse.
Speaker C:So, you know, in those early days, so fortunate to have, you know, been able to bring on a couple co founders who had the development and the design chops to get us off the ground.
Speaker C:And you know, it, it is still, I don't want to call it a struggle, but it's still a really hard piece of the business trying to build great product.
Speaker C:And you know, for me, I mostly lean on the guys in my team who are better at it than me.
Speaker C:And again, that's like an area where I think I've grown a lot in terms of understanding what good product looks like and even more importantly, what good product process looks like.
Speaker C:But really, I think, you know, for anyone listening that, you know, is more of the, the business mind in the business and less of the technical founder or co founder.
Speaker C:It really comes down to finding the right people to, to join you on the journey and really leaning and, you know, empowering them to, to do what they're good at.
Speaker C:So for me, it's a, it's startups are incredibly hard.
Speaker C:I was ready for hard.
Speaker C:I think I've been surprised how hard.
Speaker C:And you know, I think we've been pretty damn successful to date and we still got a really long way to go.
Speaker C:But I think, you know, it all comes back to the people you surround yourself with and, you know, looking in the mirror and figuring out where are your gaps and then finding the right people to join you to fill those gaps.
Speaker C:And in the early days, all the way up to today, that development and design skill set is something that was a huge gap for me and, you know, just really thankful that I was able to bring on a couple early co founders who could, who could fill that void.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Have there been any other organizations like in Calgary that have been beneficial to helping you guys get rolling?
Speaker C:Oh, man, so many.
Speaker C:So many.
Speaker C:You mentioned it in the intro.
Speaker C:The Chamber has been a huge supporter of us.
Speaker C:Winning that small Business of the year award a couple years ago was, was definitely some wind in our sales.
Speaker C:I think a ton of the, the scale ups in town that are further ahead, who, you know, we're so fortunate now to call our clients have been hugely valuable.
Speaker C:Not just, you know, the revenue and the logos that were able to drive, but, but the relationships that I've been able to develop with, you know, the CEOs and executives of those companies.
Speaker C:We are, I'm sitting here in a Boardroom at Telus Sky.
Speaker C:Right now we share a floor with, you know, two of our clients who are run by two really good friends of mine, Bolster and Zun.
Speaker C:And you know, they're both further along in their journey and being able to, you know, extract lessons and learnings from folks that have done it before or a little further ahead has been so, so valuable, not just to me, but to folks throughout my team.
Speaker C: ood Lawyer, you know, back in: Speaker C:And to see where, where we've gotten it today is super encouraging.
Speaker C:And you know, I start a Good Lawyer, I assume that I would be moving to Toronto or San Fran or New York to, to build this thing eventually and I don't feel like that anymore.
Speaker C:I think Calgary is, is ripe.
Speaker C:I think it's full of opportunity and I think we might have caught the wave at sort of the perfect time where there's unbelievable talent here, but it's still small enough that you can make a dent.
Speaker C:And you know that first yacht party we threw Cal React Dev getting behind it, joining us, turning it into the Cal React Collision party in Toronto, being this, you know, big deal despite being a tiny little, little company at a time was, was something that I don't know if we could have done it had we been based in any other city.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, Alberta is absolutely amazing.
Speaker C:And hey, I went to U of A, I spent seven years in Edmonton.
Speaker C:I love Edmonton too, my friend.
Speaker A:I, I, I love Calgary.
Speaker A:I love Edmonton.
Speaker A:I think that we are incredibly blessed to live in this beautiful province and it is one of the fastest growing tech sectors in the world.
Speaker A:And it's due to people like you, it's due to innovators like you changing the world, dude.
Speaker A:And it's, it's amazing.
Speaker A:And you know, one of the things that I really wanted to chat with you today as a small business myself and knowing a ton of small business, I think many of us struggle with understanding how and when to engage a law firm, what we even necessarily need legal for.
Speaker A:I think by the time lot of small companies realize they need legal, we're already in trouble.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So can you maybe give us some advice today, Brett?
Speaker A:You know, to, to the small, medium sized businesses out there, ones that maybe don't have legal on their team at all.
Speaker A:They're not really sure, you know, I think they're just, they're, they're scooting through hoping they won't need Legal for as long as humanly possible.
Speaker A:Do you have some advice for these people or, or can you maybe give us a 101 on what we need to know?
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean again, it's one of these things and I, and I hate to give you the lawyer answer that it depends, you know, depending on, on what your business is doing, what your aspirations are, the industry and context that you're, you're building your business within all have huge ramifications on whether you need to find a good lawyer, whether, you know, template off Law Depot is sufficient.
Speaker C:But the one thing that I will say is, is a common killer and it's like the most unnecessary killer I, I see especially in the startup space, but certainly not exclusively.
Speaker C:It applies certainly in just any sort of small business context where you have multiple partners, multiple owners and that is the, the shareholder structure or you know, maybe I'll start with the founder context in a startup.
Speaker C:The number one legal mess I see that can be detrimental because that's the thing about law a lot of the time and lawyers are exceptionally good at this.
Speaker C:You can fix things if you do them wrong, you can often go back most of the time and fix them later.
Speaker C:Maybe it'll be more expensive, but you can fix things.
Speaker C:The struggle that I see that derails businesses unnecessarily is when you know you've got say three co founders or you got three owners and you have not created a situation.
Speaker C:And in the startup context I, I call it, you know, a founder investing agreement which can be baked into other agreements.
Speaker C:But that's the concept in a more small business, traditional small business setting.
Speaker C:Just you know, things like how do you, how does somebody exit in a fair way?
Speaker C:And there are very, very few startups that you know, the original co founder, co founding group is, is there for the entire journey.
Speaker C:And what I have seen so many times and we almost got snagged by this ourselves, despite, you know, the name being good lawyer, we were able to rectify it.
Speaker C:But when you start a startup, all the founders should be signing some agreement that has that founder vesting provision in it and that effectively.
Speaker C:And the typical sort of market timing is, is about, you'll invest in about four years, but basically if you split it a third, a third, a third and you know how you jig, that is, is totally dependent on the circumstances, who's bringing what, but you get your equity.
Speaker C:So you would get your third and it would vest over a four year time horizon.
Speaker C:So if you're there for a year, typically there's like a one year cliff, you know, you get 25% of, of 33, so whatever that is.
Speaker C:9, 9, 8, 9 9% you get that after year one, but after year two you get another nine or eight and so on.
Speaker C:But what that does is if somebody leaves along the way, then they stop vesting and that equity returns to the company.
Speaker C:And it's I think what everybody sort of expects.
Speaker C:But if you don't delineate that in some sort of agreement, one of those co founders could leave after six months, after a year and they own a third of the company.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And when you have that type of dead weight on a cap table, especially if you ever want to go get investment, it's just so unmotivating and unfair.
Speaker C:And I've seen companies that you know, are still early but like starting to, to turn the corner and they just die because somebody left.
Speaker C:It's not fair.
Speaker C:Now I'm, I'm building this business, we own the same and, and it just creates this internal breakdown that was so avoidable with a simple founder vesting agreement.
Speaker A:So amazing.
Speaker A:That's great advice.
Speaker C:That would be my number one if, if I just had to give you one.
Speaker C:Oh, that one's, that one's free, my friend.
Speaker A:No, that's amazing advice.
Speaker A:And you're right.
Speaker A:I think a lot of people, they go into it with good faith, think hoping for the best, which I think is entrepreneurs.
Speaker A:That's what most of us live our life based on.
Speaker A:But yeah, shit happens and you got to have a plan.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker C:And people also, you know again in both the startup and more traditional small business sense have this over certain belief that 51 is the be all, end all it can be.
Speaker C:Owning 51 can be, but really it comes down to what do you, what does your shareholders agreement say?
Speaker C:Who are directors?
Speaker C:What is like the, who controls, how do they control who owns and how are decisions made at the shareholder level?
Speaker C:And so you know, the, the contrast to maybe the founder vesting in the small business sense would be having an appropriate shareholder agreement in place is super important and having provisions within it that you know, if the worst case scenario occurs, you know, it really, you really have to have that hard conversation in the early days when everything's groovy between you and your, your co owners or your co founders.
Speaker C:Because if you have the hard conversation it's, it provides an exit avenue that doesn't torch the business down the road.
Speaker C:And so in a shareholder agreement that could be a buyback provision.
Speaker C:You know, if you get hit by a bus, does Half the company, you know, go to your wife or your siblings or you know, or is there an automatic way for the company to claw that back in?
Speaker C:Because really what you're trying to avoid more than anything else is dead weight on the cap table.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, no, that makes, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker A:And so like this is something that companies should be figuring out really at the early stages, not when they're a year or two years in.
Speaker C:Sooner the better.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, that's amazing.
Speaker A:Dude.
Speaker A:Can you talk about some of the other services that you guys offer through Good Lawyer?
Speaker A:I know it's a wide range, but I know we have a lot of people from a wide range of companies listening, so, so can we just go over all the services that you offer?
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:So again, I'd say, you know, the, the flagship focus these days is embedding fractional general counsel into high growth technology companies as well as mid market companies in a wide variety of industries from oil and gas, mining, insurance, health, like, you know, we've got some sports teams that we're working with.
Speaker C:Wide variety of, you know, typically fast growing businesses that need that internal in house legal function on a part time basis.
Speaker C:When it comes to more just like project based or, or broad stroke practice areas.
Speaker C:We do everything that a national law firm would, except big hairy commercial litigation.
Speaker C:So again, that would be one of those areas where if you came to me and you have this multimillion dollar dispute, like I'm sending you to pause over at my old firm, if you're going to be doing an IPO or your $100 million exit, you know, I'm sending you to bode over at another one.
Speaker C:But if you are a small business and you need to incorporate and get your shareholder agreement in order and know, maybe create the, the terms and privacy for your website, that is definitely something that we service all the time on, on the marketplace side of things.
Speaker C:And so anything corporate, commercial, anything governance related, employment, hr.
Speaker C:My only caveat there is we, we don't, we don't do employees.
Speaker C:We're totally focused on serving the entrepreneurs in the businesses.
Speaker C:So you know, building your HR program or your employment agreements, that kind of stuff definitely in the wheelhouse.
Speaker C:And then I would say one of our other areas that were incredibly strong because IP lawyers have a tendency to leave the firm because they don't need the leverage that it offers is intellectual property.
Speaker C:So trademarks protecting your brand, protecting your logo and patents.
Speaker C:We have a bench on the IP front that I think can compete with any of the big firms in the country.
Speaker A:Amazing, amazing.
Speaker A:And you had mentioned the website.
Speaker A:Are people able to order services through the marketplace on the website?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:So yeah, if you go to GoodLawyer CA and you click the company drop down and click startups that will take you to our funnel.
Speaker C:Everyone that we're working with right now will have a touch point with somebody on our customer experience team to make sure because getting that right fit is so important.
Speaker C:So there will be a human in the loop to make sure we get you place in the right spot.
Speaker C:But yeah, all of the transactions and and everything occur right on the platform and you know, make we make it easy so you can keep going back to that lawyer because you know re educating a new lawyer every time is, you know, not good for anybody.
Speaker A:Of course, of course.
Speaker A:Dude, this has been amazing.
Speaker A:If people want to connect with you, what's the best way for them to do so?
Speaker C:Best way to find me is to hit me up on LinkedIn.
Speaker C:Just search Brett Coleman.
Speaker C:You'll find me.
Speaker C:And then yeah, if you want to check out what good lawyer is all about.
Speaker C:GoodLawyer CA and then the final thing I'll mention is if there are any lawyers or law curious folks out there.
Speaker C:We're also bringing back our Future of Law summit in November.
Speaker C:It's virtual, it's free.
Speaker C:We got Guy Kawasaki as our keynote speaker and that you can find at Summit.
Speaker C:Good Lawyer Cat.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker A:We're gonna have this show's coming out after that but I will make sure that we have a link.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'll make sure that we have a link because I'm going to be releasing a clip from the show so I'll make sure that we have a link with that ahead of it just so that we get it.
Speaker C:Sounds good.
Speaker C:Awesome.
Speaker A:Brett, thank you for joining us today.
Speaker A:This has been amazing.
Speaker A:You've been listening to episode 214 of the Business Development podcast and we will catch you on the flip side.
Speaker B:This has been the Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kennedy.
Speaker B: business development firm in: Speaker B:His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development.
Speaker B:The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your business development specialists.
Speaker B:For more more we invite you to the website at www.capitalbd.ca.
Speaker B:see you next time on the Business Development Podcast.
