From Rock Bottom to Resilience: Bryan Hayes on Climbing Back After Devastating Losses

Kelly Kennedy: 00:01:24

Welcome to episode 182 of the Business Development Podcast.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:01:28

And on today's expert guest interview we are chatting with the great Brian Hayes.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:01:33

We are chatting all about sales, life and mental health.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:01:36

And my gosh, did this episode not go how I thought it would?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:01:40

Trigger warning everybody.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:01:42

We do talk about suicide in today's episode and if you are struggling with any mental health challenges, the suicide hotline in Canada is 988.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:01:50

You can text or call 24 hours a day.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:01:54

You are worth it.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:01:55

You are valuable.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:01:56

There is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:01:58

Stick with us.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:01:59

You are not going to want to miss this episode.

Mark Cuban: 00:02:05

The great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years.

Mark Cuban: 00:02:10

Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal.

Mark Cuban: 00:02:18

And we couldn't agree more.

Mark Cuban: 00:02:21

This is the Business Development Podcast based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

Mark Cuban: 00:02:27

In broad broadcasting to the world.

Mark Cuban: 00:02:30

You'll get expert business development advice, tips and experiences and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs and business development reps.

Mark Cuban: 00:02:40

You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business brought to you by Capital Business Development capitalbd ca.

Mark Cuban: 00:02:50

Let's do it.

Mark Cuban: 00:02:51

Welcome to the Business Development Podcast.

Mark Cuban: 00:02:55

And now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:02:59

Hello.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:02:59

Welcome to episode 182 of the Business Development Podcast.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:03:06

And today we bring an absolute rockstar expert for you, Brian Hayes.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:03:11

Brian is a seasoned sales and business development professional with over 15 years of diverse experience across various industries including sales consulting, real estate and fitness.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:03:23

As the founder and president of Elevate X Sales Inc.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:03:27

Based in Dallas, Texas, Brian is pioneering the future of sales consulting by integrating AI driven insights with innovative strategies.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:03:36

His extensive career journey reflects a commitment to excellence from his role as marketing director at NAI Robert Lin, where he facilitated over 50 commercial transactions, to his impactful tenure at Innovative Recovery RAB Inc.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:03:51

And the Waller Group where he drove national growth and sourced multimillion dollar investment opportunities.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:03:57

Brian's passion for sales and client success is matched by his dedication to continuous learning and leadership.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:04:04

His entrepreneurial spirit led him to establish Elevate X Sales Inc.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:04:08

A company dedicated to redefining sales excellence through a holistic client centric approach.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:04:15

Whether it's transforming sales teams with cutting edge elearning programs or preparing companies for the future.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:04:21

With the upcoming AI sales companion ti, Brian is set in helping businesses achieve unparalleled success and thrive in a competitive landscape.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:04:32

Brian, it's an honor to have you join us today.

Brian Hayes: 00:04:34

Thank you.

Brian Hayes: 00:04:35

That was.

Brian Hayes: 00:04:35

That was quite an introduction I was.

Brian Hayes: 00:04:37

I couldn't have said it better myself, but you said it way better.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:04:40

Well, thank you.

Brian Hayes: 00:04:42

Was that chatgpt?

Brian Hayes: 00:04:43

That's what that was.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:04:45

We do use a little bit of help, but, you know, we love a rock star entrance.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:04:49

We really do.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:04:49

On the show.

Brian Hayes: 00:04:50

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:04:51

Thank you.

Brian Hayes: 00:04:51

Thank you.

Brian Hayes: 00:04:52

No, I love it.

Brian Hayes: 00:04:53

I love it.

Brian Hayes: 00:04:53

Whoever wrote it, it was great.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:04:56

There you go.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:04:56

There you go.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:04:57

I'm going to take credit.

Brian Hayes: 00:04:58

Good.

Brian Hayes: 00:04:59

Better.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:00

Your show, Brian.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:02

It's an absolute honor to have you on the show.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:04

You know, we connected on LinkedIn a while ago, and we've kind of been chatting back and forth.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:08

You know, I've had the pleasure to meet quite a few people from Texas, and, you know, I think I've liked every one of them.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:13

So it's an honor to have you join us today.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:15

I'm really looking forward to our convers on sales.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:17

There's a lot to chat about here and there's a lot of new things.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:20

And I know we talked kind of before the show, but I said, you know, there's a lot of new sales ideas coming up.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:26

There's a lot of people getting, like, swamped every day from a whole bunch of people saying they can generate a thousand leads a day or whatever.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:33

You know what I'm talking about.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:34

You got.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:34

Your inbox is full of these things, too.

Brian Hayes: 00:05:36

Yes.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:36

And so I think sales is starting to get this, like, weird place where nobody knows what to trust, especially with the advent of AI especially with the advent of now these virtual assistants that seem to be popping up left, right and center, right.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:49

So, you know, I want to dive deep into that today, but I want to chat a lot with you.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:53

You know, you have a very, very broad marketing experience, sales experience, business development experience.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:58

You've been around the block.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:05:59

You know what you're talking about.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:06:00

So we're going to, you know, chat.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:06:01

And my goal today with this show is really just to help entrepreneurs make good decisions, be able to invest their money safely and in something that is actually going to lead to sales and revenue for their companies because, you know, nobody wants to get screwed, and I don't want anybody to get screwed.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:06:17

And if we can help even one company today, you know, we've done our job.

Brian Hayes: 00:06:21

Yes, one company.

Brian Hayes: 00:06:23

That's.

Brian Hayes: 00:06:23

That's our goal today.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:06:25

It, you know, it's a really simple, simple metric.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:06:27

I feel like.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:06:28

I feel like one.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:06:29

I'll be happy.

Brian Hayes: 00:06:29

Yep, yep.

Brian Hayes: 00:06:30

I do that one.

Brian Hayes: 00:06:33

Clock out, go home.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:06:35

But before we do this, dude, bring us back to the beginning.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:06:38

Who is Brian Hayes?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:06:39

How did you end up on this journey?

Brian Hayes: 00:06:40

Oh my.

Brian Hayes: 00:06:41

Well, this journey.

Brian Hayes: 00:06:42

Journey has been an interesting journey.

Brian Hayes: 00:06:44

I will start off by saying, you know, the, the hard part first, which is I'm actually.

Brian Hayes: 00:06:52

My mother was 16 when she had had me and teen pregnancy in Salt Lake City, Utah, a very religious area.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:02

I don't know if you're familiar with Salt Lake City, but that's where the Mormons, the LDS Church is.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:07

And it was difficult growing up.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:10

I was, she was the youngest of four and so I was the oldest.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:15

The her children, of course, and I've got one other sister.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:21

And it was interesting growing up and kind of being.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:24

I was the oddball, honestly.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:26

You know, some people say, oh, I was a black sheep.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:28

I was this, I was that.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:29

No, I was the oddball.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:30

You know, no one wanted to be my friend of sorts.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:34

You know, I had several friends, but it was just different.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:36

I just never fit in.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:37

I really didn't feel like I fit in.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:39

So when I was a kid, I didn't even like the snow.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:42

And I Salt Lake City, Utah snows.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:45

And so I knew I had to leave when I could.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:50

And then I took the first opportunity, took a job with.

Brian Hayes: 00:07:56

And this was: 2008

Brian Hayes: 00:08:01

And then: 2008

Brian Hayes: 00:08:04

So I was like, well, false start, let's try again.

Brian Hayes: 00:08:08

And then I transferred over to a smaller distribution company.

Brian Hayes: 00:08:13

They sold specialty art supplies to schools, churches, marketing agencies and sold the actual products that they would use.

Brian Hayes: 00:08:21

And their biggest customer was in Mexico City.

Brian Hayes: 00:08:25

And so they said, brian, we want you to move to Texas.

Brian Hayes: 00:08:27

I was like, well, when are we going?

Brian Hayes: 00:08:29

Like, I'm ready to go and I've been waiting.

Brian Hayes: 00:08:33

And I was 20 at the time.

Brian Hayes: 00:08:35

I had a thousand dollars in my bank account and I was like, I packed up everything in my car and I was like, we're going.

Brian Hayes: 00:08:41

Like, I have to leave.

Brian Hayes: 00:08:43

There's like something's calling me.

Brian Hayes: 00:08:45

And they gave me a choice whether I wanted to go to Dallas, Houston, Austin or San Antonio.

Brian Hayes: 00:08:51

And at the time,: 2008

Brian Hayes: 00:08:58

So it has some street views.

Brian Hayes: 00:09:00

And so I actually went through and went through some of the street views and I was like, yes, I like this.

Brian Hayes: 00:09:06

And moved here, Drove actually straight away non stop.

Brian Hayes: 00:09:12

I was so excited to get here, Worked for the company for a year.

Brian Hayes: 00:09:16

And then they closed down.

Brian Hayes: 00:09:17

The two owners got in a fight, they closed down.

Brian Hayes: 00:09:19

So I'm like in: 1400

Brian Hayes: 00:09:27

And I started leasing apartments and that wasn't typically for me, you know, it was in real estate.

Brian Hayes: 00:09:34

I knew I always wanted to be in real estate, but that was the first entry and I didn't have a license at the time.

Brian Hayes: 00:09:41

Didn't really know what to do and how to get into the industry.

Brian Hayes: 00:09:44

So I sold our lease apartments.

Brian Hayes: 00:09:47

After I decided that wasn't for me, I went to a company called U.S.

Brian Hayes: 00:09:51

trade Finance Corp.

Brian Hayes: 00:09:53

And they did consignment sales for heavy construction equipment.

Brian Hayes: 00:09:57

That definitely wasn't for me.

Brian Hayes: 00:09:59

Just not rough around the edges.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:02

And you're speaking to people that are rough around the edges, so they're going to tell you exactly how it is when you're cold.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:07

Calling construction guy, he owns a crane or excavator, front end loader.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:11

He's going to tell you how it is.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:13

He'd be like, get the F off the phone.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:15

Like, what are you doing?

Brian Hayes: 00:10:16

It's.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:17

And so I just.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:18

I have thick skin, but, yeah, I don't want to get beat up.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:10:23

A little harsh.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:10:24

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:10:24

Yeah, that's fair.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:25

So the owner's wife actually came to me and she said, brian, you need to go somewhere where you can talk to somebody in person all day, every day.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:35

I was like, okay.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:36

In high school, I was a swimmer, and so I thought, okay, I'll do something athletics.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:40

And so I went and sold memberships for Lifetime Fitness.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:43

A gym.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:10:43

Yeah, if you're familiar with Lifetime, we have them here.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:10:46

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:46

Beautiful, aren't they?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:10:47

They are.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:48

And sold memberships as I was getting some certifications from the National Academy of Sports Medicine.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:55

So I didn't.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:56

I obviously skipped over this part, but I didn't attend college.

Brian Hayes: 00:10:59

And so this was my formal education of sorts.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:11:02

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:02

To kind of come with the trade.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:04

And once I got my certification, I applied for a personal training job at the location I was at.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:10

And they said, no, I don't have any experience.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:13

They wanted me to stay in membership sales.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:15

So I was like, okay, well, I'm leaving.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:18

And I went to 24 Hour Fitness.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:20

It's a larger chain at the time.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:22

They have more locations.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:24

Maybe not now, but worked there for a year.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:27

Got four other certifications.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:29

Corrective exercise performance enhancement, fitness, nutrition and mixed martial arts conditioning.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:34

Trained clients from all walks of life, from attorneys all the way down to single moms and kids in college and just paying with their.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:46

There was one client that paid with her student.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:49

Student loan card, I think it is.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:11:50

Oh, wow.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:51

I was like, you sure?

Brian Hayes: 00:11:53

And she's like, yes.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:54

I was like, okay.

Brian Hayes: 00:11:55

It's education.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:11:57

Yeah, yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:12:00

Those student loan cards, man.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:12:01

Like, you can't.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:12:02

You can't escape that debt.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:03

No.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:04

And that's what I told her.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:05

And I was like, okay, if that's what you want.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:12:09

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:10

I was honored.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:12:11

Oh, to be young and dumb again.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:13

There should be money on this card.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:17

Golly.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:18

But so trained at 24 Hour Fitness.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:22

And then I just.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:23

I wanted to have a better gym, so I went back to the original gym that I sold memberships for.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:29

It's a big, large one.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:30

It's a platinum diamond location.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:32

And I applied again.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:33

They were like, okay, now you have experience.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:35

I'm like, oh, now I'm good enough.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:37

So trained there.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:39

Trained lots of executive C suite.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:41

It's next to Toyota's headquarters.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:44

So I trained several of the C suites, some Chief Technical Officers, CEOs, doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs, and really got to have a conversation about business.

Brian Hayes: 00:12:59

That was the interesting part, because you.

Brian Hayes: 00:13:01

I have to keep them entertained while they're going through pain.

Brian Hayes: 00:13:05

So I was the comedian for the hour.

Brian Hayes: 00:13:07

But that's where I learned the empathy in sales is you need to see it from their eyes.

Brian Hayes: 00:13:13

Like, how would they want to be treated?

Brian Hayes: 00:13:15

And so I always treated my clients.

Brian Hayes: 00:13:17

You know, every client was different.

Brian Hayes: 00:13:19

So I would be different with one than the other.

Brian Hayes: 00:13:21

I'd have more jokes for another.

Brian Hayes: 00:13:23

I'd have less clean jokes for another.

Brian Hayes: 00:13:26

And honed that.

Brian Hayes: 00:13:29

Didn't know empathy, you know, that wasn't a word in my vocabulary at the time, but I knew it was like, I'm seeing it from your eyes.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:13:36

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:13:37

And that's when I kind of found the superpower.

Brian Hayes: 00:13:41

And one of my clients looked at me and said, brian, you're too smart to be counting to 10.

Brian Hayes: 00:13:49

And it blew my mind.

Brian Hayes: 00:13:51

Changed the whole trajectory of my life.

Brian Hayes: 00:13:54

I went to.

Brian Hayes: 00:13:55

I started being a private personal trainer and trying to do, you know, some sort of business.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:14:00

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:14:01

And it then came to apparent where I needed to figure out how I can make money without having to not train somebody, but having to actually work that hour.

Brian Hayes: 00:14:15

So I needed to maximize my time.

Brian Hayes: 00:14:17

So I thought, okay, well, where.

Brian Hayes: 00:14:20

Where can I go and get some.

Brian Hayes: 00:14:22

Something professional?

Brian Hayes: 00:14:23

Even without a degree?

Brian Hayes: 00:14:24

And real estate has a.

Brian Hayes: 00:14:25

Not a low barrier of entry, but you need a license and you can practice, and it has education.

Brian Hayes: 00:14:32

So I got my real estate license, and I didn't want to do residential.

Brian Hayes: 00:14:36

I wanted to do commercial.

Brian Hayes: 00:14:38

I think, you know, when you sell residential, it's more of how you Feel.

Brian Hayes: 00:14:43

How does this house make you feel?

Brian Hayes: 00:14:45

You see your family here with things different sales process.

Brian Hayes: 00:14:49

With commercial, it's more of, here's the numbers, here's what it is.

Brian Hayes: 00:14:52

Do you like it?

Brian Hayes: 00:14:53

Does it work?

Brian Hayes: 00:14:53

Does it make sense for your business future?

Brian Hayes: 00:14:56

You know, it's less emotional, it's more logical.

Brian Hayes: 00:14:59

Even though I have empathy based sales, I thought that was a good mix.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:15:03

Sure.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:04

So I worked for a small boutique brokerage firm that did investment sales for multifamily.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:10

Was there for less, less than a year.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:12

And I was like, I gotta go.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:13

Sourced lots of deals, but they just never executed on any of them.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:17

And I was like, I'm not gonna see the commission that I want to see.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:20

So this is not the commercial I'm thinking of.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:22

So I did research and I looked at the top five firms in Dallas, including cbre, JLL and Nai.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:31

Robert Lynn is the local firm.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:34

And I applied to all of them.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:36

They all turned me down.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:37

And Nai at least gave me a shot.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:40

They, they took a meeting, they took an interview and passed the interview.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:45

Then went to the gauntlet, is what I call it.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:48

It was six interviews in one day and they were all an hour plus long.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:53

And it was just one after the other.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:55

Met with CEO, principal, principal, principal, CEO.

Brian Hayes: 00:15:59

It was, it was interesting and passed the gauntlet.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:04

And after passing the gauntlet, they provided me with.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:07

Because you, they give you a market so you've got like a franchise almost.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:12

So they give you a market of specialty.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:15

And that was the urban market for retail.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:18

So I was downtown, uptown, deep Ellum.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:21

I don't know if you're familiar with Dallas.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:23

It's kind of a trendy restaurant area, party area.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:27

That was my market of focus.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:28

They were like, dive in.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:30

We've never done it.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:31

We don't even know what's out there.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:33

I had to do research on the market to find out what retail properties were there.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:38

And they were like, yeah, that's yours and you're off.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:43

And there's no salary.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:45

It's 100% commission.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:47

There's a draw, but it's 30,000 a year.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:16:51

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:51

So it doesn't cover.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:53

It keeps your covers.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:16:57

Nothing.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:16:58

No.

Brian Hayes: 00:16:58

So for the first, you know, year, it was struggle learning a new market.

Brian Hayes: 00:17:07

And it's the most competitive market in Dallas because everyone wants a listing in uptown, in downtown.

Brian Hayes: 00:17:13

And so I was competing with a lot of the hot shots.

Brian Hayes: 00:17:16

And so when someone says that is that reference 30K Millionaire?

Brian Hayes: 00:17:20

Like, I totally get it.

Brian Hayes: 00:17:22

Because I had to pretend like I was successful in order to get some of those opportunities, but got several listings.

Brian Hayes: 00:17:32

I leased for some several high rise buildings in downtown Dallas and had a Mid America apartments.

Brian Hayes: 00:17:40

They're a pretty large ownership group nationally.

Brian Hayes: 00:17:43

And this is right before COVID We signed an agreement where we took over the leasing for 10 different properties.

Brian Hayes: 00:17:50

And not two weeks later, Covid happened.

Brian Hayes: 00:17:53

Completely changed the game.

Brian Hayes: 00:17:55

And mine being the urban market, the most dense, the most highly populated, everyone ran away.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:01

So nothing.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:02

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:03

So I did zero deals.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:05

So I get out of this training program and then go in and here comes Covet.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:10

I also had brain surgery that year.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:18:13

Oh, wow.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:14

During.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:14

Yeah, during COVID believe it or not.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:17

And crazy experience was benign.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:20

So it's fine.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:21

I'm fine now.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:22

But it was still a rough year.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:25

21 was my comeback year.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:27

I proposed to my fiance at the top of one of the high rise buildings.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:31

I changed the lights on the other high rise building.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:34

You know, at the top of the world closing.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:37

I started getting pretty close to closing my 50 transactions.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:40

I did a few in: 2022

Brian Hayes: 00:18:46

So I was just on the top of the world, ready to go.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:49

And then 22 happened.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:51

And I didn't see the success monetarily that I wanted to.

Brian Hayes: 00:18:56

And so I was like, okay, well what else could I do?

Brian Hayes: 00:18:59

And there was an opportunity to work with a group called Sonder and they wanted to do office to residential conversions and that is, you know, construction permitting and all of that stuff.

Brian Hayes: 00:19:16

So it'd be.

Brian Hayes: 00:19:17

Make it a mixed use property where you'd have office, some floors and residential, some floors, hotels, some floors, retail at the bottom.

Brian Hayes: 00:19:25

Right.

Brian Hayes: 00:19:26

And they wanted me to introduce them to some of the owners in, in those markets because I knew them all.

Brian Hayes: 00:19:32

I was calling them and talking with them as I was trying to represent them on the retail on the bottom floor.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:19:37

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:19:38

And so was able to make several introductions.

Brian Hayes: 00:19:41

We lined up several deals where they would take several hundred contiguous square feet of property of, of the building and do a master lease.

Brian Hayes: 00:19:51

And those commissions would have netted me well over a million dollars each of them.

Brian Hayes: 00:19:55

And I signed up six.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:19:56

Wow.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:19:57

Wow.

Brian Hayes: 00:19:58

And so I was flying high in 22, ready to go.

Brian Hayes: 00:20:02

Interest rates started to change and one by one, each of them fell.

Brian Hayes: 00:20:07

And the owners called me and were like, Brian, like we can't pursue this deal.

Brian Hayes: 00:20:11

I know you've worked hard on it, but interest rates, it just doesn't pencil out.

Brian Hayes: 00:20:16

I'm sorry.

Brian Hayes: 00:20:17

One after the other, the end of the year, all of them died.

Brian Hayes: 00:20:21

And I'm at The end of the year going, okay, well, I can kill myself or I can continue.

Brian Hayes: 00:20:26

So I decided to continue.

Brian Hayes: 00:20:29

Oh, man, it was so bad.

Brian Hayes: 00:20:31

I mean, it was.

Brian Hayes: 00:20:32

When you lose that and you work hard and you tell people and everyone in the office knows what is happening, that you're about to make something great happen.

Brian Hayes: 00:20:44

You know, leasing several hundred contiguous square feet and doing something new in a market, the buzz gets around.

Brian Hayes: 00:20:51

You know, my nickname was Big Big fees.

Brian Hayes: 00:20:58

I love it.

Brian Hayes: 00:20:59

I was chasing those big fees.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:01

Yeah, yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:02

I was not missing big fees.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:04

And so it didn't happen.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:06

And I was like, look, I gotta go.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:08

Like, I have to leave.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:10

Like, there's just no way.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:11

So I took the first job that was going to give me a salary.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:15

I never had a salary.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:16

First time in my life.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:17

I'm 30 years old.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:19

Yeah, 32 or 3 at the time.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:21

Never had a salary, took a job.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:24

But it was in.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:25

It was in debt collection.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:26

Very interesting industry.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:28

And it was not for me.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:30

Not that it's a bad industry.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:31

It's just.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:32

It's different.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:33

You know, when you have a conversation, they're like, oh, yeah, what do you do for a living?

Brian Hayes: 00:21:36

Oh, I'm in debt collection.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:40

You're like, don't worry, I'm not here for you.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:42

Calm down.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:21:45

Oh, my goodness.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:46

I could definitely see that, you know, So I left that company, went to another one to try to figure out maybe it was just that it was real estate focused.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:54

Then it went to business debt collection.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:57

I stayed there three months.

Brian Hayes: 00:21:59

And the reason I went there is they wanted me to focus on marketing and do different outreach.

Brian Hayes: 00:22:05

No, no sales outreach.

Brian Hayes: 00:22:07

None of.

Brian Hayes: 00:22:08

Nothing like that.

Brian Hayes: 00:22:09

And then one day they were like, hey, you want to get on the phone to start cold calling?

Brian Hayes: 00:22:12

Like, yeah, I can do that.

Brian Hayes: 00:22:14

But it's not really what I signed up for.

Brian Hayes: 00:22:16

And they started changing what they wanted me to do.

Brian Hayes: 00:22:18

So I was like, okay, I got to leave.

Brian Hayes: 00:22:20

So I left, took the commission from my last deal that I did at NI Robert Lynn, and founded Elevate X Sales.

Brian Hayes: 00:22:28

Because I was like, well, if I can't find a job, I'm going to make a job.

Brian Hayes: 00:22:34

And I want to do something that I feel passionate about.

Brian Hayes: 00:22:38

And I know I can sell because it's.

Brian Hayes: 00:22:40

So I'm putting my stamp of approval on it.

Brian Hayes: 00:22:43

I'm sick of doing it for someone else.

Brian Hayes: 00:22:45

Not that it's bad to do that.

Brian Hayes: 00:22:47

It's just not what I wanted to do.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:22:49

Sure.

Brian Hayes: 00:22:50

And it started as an elearning company, Then I switched to making it more focused towards sales Outreach, third party.

Brian Hayes: 00:23:00

And now it's going full circle.

Brian Hayes: 00:23:02

We're going back to commercial real estate and get back on the saddle, and we're going to do marketing for commercial real estate properties because there's a big gap in the market.

Brian Hayes: 00:23:10

They don't do social media, they don't do SEO.

Brian Hayes: 00:23:15

They don't understand that.

Brian Hayes: 00:23:16

And I want to bring life to commercial real estate and kind of do what residential does where they have guided walkthroughs of the house, some actual character.

Brian Hayes: 00:23:26

It's not just, here's the deal.

Brian Hayes: 00:23:29

It's, yeah, well, here's the deal.

Brian Hayes: 00:23:31

And it's all dressed up and nice, and this is how we could look for your business, interviewing tenants, things that nature so long winded, but lots unpacked there.

Brian Hayes: 00:23:44

But I'm excited to continue to pursue forward with my sales career with Elevate X Sales.

Brian Hayes: 00:23:50

And thank you for having me.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:23:52

No, no.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:23:53

Amazing.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:23:53

Amazing.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:23:54

Man, I can't imagine, like, I was listening to your story where you're talking about, like, you know, the losses of those deals, one after one.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:24:02

And, you know, I mean, at that point, you've probably already, like, forecast your future, what you're gonna do with that money, what life is gonna be like.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:24:09

You know, things are gonna.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:24:10

It's gonna be that boost that you need for your new marriage, dude.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:24:14

Like, oh, I can't.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:24:16

You know, I mean, I've had people come on this show who lost their business, lost their investments, everything.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:24:23

And I always have to ask when I hear a story like that, dude, how did you come back?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:24:29

What did you tell yourself in that moment?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:24:31

Because I, you know, I mean, I had that conversation with a gentleman who lost, you know, a few million dollars and literally lost his business, lost his investments, lost everything, and then clawed back, became successful again.

Brian Hayes: 00:24:44

Yeah, but.

Brian Hayes: 00:24:45

But I always, like.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:24:46

And that's the cool story here.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:24:47

The cool story here is that a lot of the people I've talked to that had that happen, that is exactly what happened.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:24:53

They clawed back and they came back because they had the knowledge on how to do it again.

Brian Hayes: 00:24:58

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:24:58

But I do have to ask you, you know, just as a human to another human, that must.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:25:04

First off, that must have been absolutely horrible, and I'm sorry that that happened to you.

Brian Hayes: 00:25:07

Thanks.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:25:08

And second off, how were you able to motivate yourself and frankly, keep your mental health?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:25:15

Okay.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:25:15

Because I can imagine losing by the time you lost that sixth deal, and you're just like, like, why, that building's pretty tall.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:25:22

Yeah, no, I know.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:25:24

I can imagine.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:25:25

I can imagine.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:25:26

Talk to me about that moment.

Brian Hayes: 00:25:28

So it really was one thing, and it's my fiance.

Brian Hayes: 00:25:33

I didn't want to impact her because I knew how it would make her feel.

Brian Hayes: 00:25:38

So empathy is very strong with me.

Brian Hayes: 00:25:41

And I put myself in her shoes and I was like, okay, if I kill myself, what is it?

Brian Hayes: 00:25:46

How is that going to affect her?

Brian Hayes: 00:25:48

And I kind of foresaw her life.

Brian Hayes: 00:25:50

Not that I know what she would do, but just my thought of it and I was like, that's not how I want her to live.

Brian Hayes: 00:25:58

And I had to literally decide.

Brian Hayes: 00:26:01

You have to decide.

Brian Hayes: 00:26:02

It's either you're going to do it or you're not going to do it.

Brian Hayes: 00:26:05

And I was like, I'm not going to do it.

Brian Hayes: 00:26:08

And I'm going to find a way.

Brian Hayes: 00:26:09

I'm going to, you know, come lick my wounds, go work at a debt collection agency, chill out for a minute and kind of figure it out.

Brian Hayes: 00:26:18

I thought, you know, I just needed a job and I thought that I would just work there for the rest of my life.

Brian Hayes: 00:26:24

And then eight months later, I'm like, no, like, that's not me.

Brian Hayes: 00:26:30

So you have to figure out who you are.

Brian Hayes: 00:26:32

And it takes time.

Brian Hayes: 00:26:34

But the initial knee jerk reaction of, well, I'm just going to go and off it.

Brian Hayes: 00:26:39

You just have to decide you're not going to.

Brian Hayes: 00:26:45

Because I wanted to see how the story ended.

Brian Hayes: 00:26:51

I didn't want it to end like that.

Brian Hayes: 00:26:54

That was the big thing, honestly.

Brian Hayes: 00:26:56

That's interesting.

Brian Hayes: 00:26:57

Nerv said that out loud.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:26:59

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:00

And thank you for that.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:01

Thank you for being so candid.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:03

Because I can imagine, I don't know how you felt in that moment.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:07

What I can say is I can imagine what that must be like.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:12

And it's not your fault.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:14

And I think that that's like the worst part about the whole thing.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:16

There's like, there's nothing.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:17

There are just circumstances sometimes, Right.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:19

Like Covid is a perfect example.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:21

There are circumstances that are completely out of your control.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:24

That no matter how amazing you are, no matter how great of an entrepreneur, how great of an idea, how great of a business person, how great of a salesperson, business development, you name it, it doesn't matter.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:35

Because it's not about you.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:36

It's a circumstance outside of your control.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:38

And I think as high performance individuals, like, I know you are, I know I am.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:42

I know a lot of my, my peers are.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:45

Yeah, we can, we can internalize that and say, it's our fault.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:48

We did it.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:49

We could have done something different and done it different.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:51

Like, it's Funny, because it's really a high performance.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:53

I just did a show, you know, on, on specifically on imposter syndrome.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:27:57

And imposter syndrome happens to 70% of people on earth and typically it actually happens to the highest performing individuals.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:28:06

Most of the time it's high performance individuals who experience imposter syndrome.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:28:10

It's not, it's not typically the people who just start in a position.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:28:14

It's usually people who already know exactly what they're doing and are taking that next big step that feel like the biggest frauds and imposters.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:28:21

So it really is a challenge for high performance individuals.

Brian Hayes: 00:28:25

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:28:26

And it's funny, you, you know, mental health, I mean, we're, we just exited May.

Brian Hayes: 00:28:34

I think that's Mental health month.

Brian Hayes: 00:28:36

That is a big thing.

Brian Hayes: 00:28:39

And I think just the message that I want to get across to everyone, if you, if you're struggling with something like that, it's best to tell someone and look for help.

Brian Hayes: 00:28:49

But you also have to look for your own help for yourself.

Brian Hayes: 00:28:53

Like, you have to internalize it and go, okay, you've got two choices.

Brian Hayes: 00:28:59

Choose.

Brian Hayes: 00:29:00

And choose well, because the story doesn't have to end that way.

Brian Hayes: 00:29:07

That's really what it was.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:29:08

Yeah, yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:29:10

And you know, like, what were some of the techniques you used?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:29:13

Obviously you came from, you know, a fitness background.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:29:16

What were some of the stress relieving techniques that you, that you utilized in that time to try to build yourself back?

Brian Hayes: 00:29:22

David Goggins is a man that I will, I look forward to meeting him.

Brian Hayes: 00:29:28

He got me out of a very dark place.

Brian Hayes: 00:29:31

He has some content that he posts on YouTube and not a lot of people know this, but I would.

Brian Hayes: 00:29:36

I have a little headset here that I put on.

Brian Hayes: 00:29:39

I downloaded just all of his motivational content, put it in my head and just listen to that on repeat.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:29:49

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:29:50

Over and over and over and over and over again until I can motivate myself again.

Brian Hayes: 00:29:54

Because I was a trainer, I used to motivate people and that was the hardest thing.

Brian Hayes: 00:29:58

When you're so low, you're like, you don't realize who you are.

Brian Hayes: 00:30:02

Like, you almost forget and you have to remind yourself who you are, what you've done, how you've overcome stuff.

Brian Hayes: 00:30:09

So you have to find something to kind of grease the wheels.

Brian Hayes: 00:30:12

And David Goggins was a great example of overcoming adversity and having that mindset of it's possible.

Brian Hayes: 00:30:21

Like, what if instead of, you know, well, that happened?

Brian Hayes: 00:30:26

That was sad.

Brian Hayes: 00:30:26

It's like, well, what if it changes?

Brian Hayes: 00:30:30

How beautiful is that story going to be?

Brian Hayes: 00:30:33

Yeah, it's going to be much better.

Brian Hayes: 00:30:35

So it's like, what if?

Brian Hayes: 00:30:37

That's what I always think.

Brian Hayes: 00:30:38

And I think that's a really good thing in business.

Brian Hayes: 00:30:40

It's like, what if I do this business venture and it fails, but what if it doesn't?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:30:45

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:30:46

So you want to try and remain as positive as you can, as cliche as that sounds.

Brian Hayes: 00:30:51

But you just want to really find out what's going to get you out of the muck.

Brian Hayes: 00:31:00

And that's what did on repeat in the shower.

Brian Hayes: 00:31:04

I would reap.

Brian Hayes: 00:31:04

I can.

Brian Hayes: 00:31:05

There's some of his motivational content that's 30 minutes long.

Brian Hayes: 00:31:08

I could say it word for word.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:31:10

Wow.

Brian Hayes: 00:31:11

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:31:11

Wow.

Brian Hayes: 00:31:11

That's how much he was listening to it.

Brian Hayes: 00:31:13

That was the only way.

Brian Hayes: 00:31:14

It was the only thing I could think of.

Brian Hayes: 00:31:16

It was like, I need to find someone motivating me.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:31:20

Amazing, amazing dude.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:31:22

And, you know, I relate to that so much.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:31:24

And what I always kind of recommend to people that are stuck, like, if you're feeling like your business is stagnant, you're stagnant, you're struggling with motivation.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:31:33

I always recommend people to listen to, like a new audio book.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:31:37

Right.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:31:37

Just something to kind of take them out of their frame of mind or their way of thinking and think just a little bit differently.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:31:44

Because most of the solutions, they're not.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:31:47

They're not 100 miles away.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:31:49

They're most of the time one or two books away.

Brian Hayes: 00:31:51

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:31:54

And, you know, it's no different than that inspiring motivational content from David Goggins.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:31:58

Right.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:31:58

Like, it's the same idea.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:32:00

It's like there is help out there.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:32:02

It's usually not that far away.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:32:04

And I find myself where I get into a pickle, where I'm just like, I need to.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:32:09

I need to think differently.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:32:11

I need a new idea.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:32:12

And when I have that moment, that's when I'm looking for a new book or some.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:32:16

Some type of content to just give me a slightly different direction or frame of mind that I didn't have before.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:32:23

Because most of the time the good idea, it's not far away.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:32:27

It's right there.

Brian Hayes: 00:32:27

Yeah, it is.

Brian Hayes: 00:32:29

And you just have to reach out and use the tools that you have.

Brian Hayes: 00:32:33

So that's really what Elevate X Sales was built on, is just, well, I could only think of a few things that I could bring to the world that's a value and that's my experience and what I've done and what I could do.

Brian Hayes: 00:32:48

Not so much what I've done.

Brian Hayes: 00:32:49

It's what I could do if given the opportunity.

Brian Hayes: 00:32:53

And so you just have to create the environment for your opportunity is really what it is.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:00

Totally, Totally.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:01

Man.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:02

This took a different direction than thought it was going to go.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:08

That's the funny thing, right?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:09

Like, people think that these podcasts are just, like, completely scripted and we know.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:14

But no, not at all.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:15

Like, I am surprised more often than not at the direction that their show goes.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:19

It's most of the time quite a bit different than the initial plan that I had.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:23

But, dude, I am so.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:24

I'm so thankful that you joined me today and that you were so vulnerable.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:27

I think it's so.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:28

And first off, you know, just let me say, like, I'm terribly sorry that that happened to you.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:32

I am happy that you are still with us.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:34

I'm happy that you're here on the show with me today, sharing your knowledge, helping the world.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:39

You know, the world needs more help.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:41

Business people need to be more helpful.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:44

We're all in it together.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:46

It's not a competition.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:47

We're all in it together.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:33:48

It's a big world.

Brian Hayes: 00:33:49

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:33:51

Oh, yes.

Brian Hayes: 00:33:52

Oh, yes.

Brian Hayes: 00:33:53

You're in Canada.

Brian Hayes: 00:33:54

I'm in Dallas, Texas.

Brian Hayes: 00:33:55

I was speaking to someone from Croatia earlier today.

Brian Hayes: 00:33:59

You know, I have.

Brian Hayes: 00:34:00

Someone just messaged me.

Brian Hayes: 00:34:01

It's why you probably heard ding or something.

Brian Hayes: 00:34:03

It was India.

Brian Hayes: 00:34:04

I'm like this ever since I got out of my little circle and I looked out for other ideas and other avenues and other possibilities.

Brian Hayes: 00:34:16

That's really what it is.

Brian Hayes: 00:34:17

Like you said, look for.

Brian Hayes: 00:34:19

It's just one.

Brian Hayes: 00:34:20

Find a way.

Brian Hayes: 00:34:21

You just have to not put yourself out there, but try to do something different.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:34:27

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:34:28

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:34:29

I could have never.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:34:30

You know, I mean, and this is like a really good example.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:34:32

When I started this show, I started it in my basement talking to Bob's basement, thinking, like, oh, my gosh.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:34:39

Like, who's going to listen to my business development show?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:34:41

Right?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:34:42

We got great knowledge.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:34:43

I know what I'm talking about.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:34:43

But, like, who in the world is going to listen to this dude?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:34:46

Over 130 countries so far listen to this show.

Brian Hayes: 00:34:50

I know.

Brian Hayes: 00:34:51

Thanks for reminding me.

Brian Hayes: 00:34:52

So I'm nervous again.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:34:54

It's absolutely bonkers.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:34:56

It, like, blows my mind sometimes.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:34:58

The impact of the Internet age.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:35:00

The impact and reach that some good advice, some helpful people can have on the world.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:35:05

You know, I never thought we're so similar, too.

Brian Hayes: 00:35:09

It's so weird.

Brian Hayes: 00:35:10

I didn't know that.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:35:12

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:35:12

Like, that we're like, dude, we're all just trying to make it, like, we're all just trying to be good people.

Brian Hayes: 00:35:18

And win win scenarios.

Brian Hayes: 00:35:20

And I mean not everyone, but most of them, most of the people here are just like, hey, help me help you.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:35:28

Yeah, yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:35:29

I got a, I got a message from Australia this week actually and gentlemen reached out.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:35:34

Super kind was like, dude, like I'm, you know, I was working in business, like in, in his industry for quite some time and then he ended up in a business development role.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:35:42

And just like, thank God you put out this information because there was just nothing out there specific to business development people, right?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:35:49

And it's like the whole reason I started this show was when I, when I started my business development career because I always say business development chooses you.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:35:56

Nobody goes to school thinking they're going to end up in business development.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:35:58

You get chosen.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:35:59

It's.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:36:00

I, I'm gonna, it's like a badge of honor.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:36:03

But I always say like, I, I had to learn, I had to learn everything on my own scramble, put together my own procedures, my own process.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:36:11

Just like you have done with Elevate X.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:36:13

Like, there's not a lot of help out there.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:36:16

And so my goal was really like, we need to stop safeguarding this information.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:36:20

If you have something that works, share it with the world.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:36:22

Because how many companies fail simply because they didn't know how to market or sell their products?

Brian Hayes: 00:36:28

And how much cooler we would be if we all lift each other up instead of like, oh, you're trying to do a business that's gonna fail, you know, instead of doubting.

Brian Hayes: 00:36:38

But that brings up a really good point, is the information is not locked, locked up tight anymore.

Brian Hayes: 00:36:45

You know, and that comes with AI and the interesting thing that that's brought to the industry.

Brian Hayes: 00:36:52

So I know you wanted to talk a little bit about that as well.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:36:55

Absolutely.

Brian Hayes: 00:36:57

Interesting how the information is not locked up tight in the universities anymore.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:37:04

Yeah, yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:37:06

Well, let's just get into it.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:37:08

You know, one of the things that you're working on is called ti what is ti?

Brian Hayes: 00:37:12

Ty is a sales companion that I'm in the process of getting developed.

Brian Hayes: 00:37:19

It's a, it's taken longer than I thought and it's quite expensive, so that's why it's taking a little longer.

Brian Hayes: 00:37:25

But Sales companion.

Brian Hayes: 00:37:26

Think of it as your Jiminy Cricket, you know, your little guy on your shoulder, kind of your conscience and he's, you know, prompting you, telling you, hey, this has happened.

Brian Hayes: 00:37:39

You should try this.

Brian Hayes: 00:37:40

So if you go to a virtual meeting and they say, no, I don't want your product because X or I don't want your product because the price point, it'll actually flash on your screen a prompt saying, try this.

Brian Hayes: 00:37:54

So it's kind of coaching you.

Brian Hayes: 00:37:55

Live action.

Brian Hayes: 00:37:57

It's grading you.

Brian Hayes: 00:37:58

It's not only is it watching what you're doing, but it'll be watching the client.

Brian Hayes: 00:38:06

So if they kind of sit back, it could say something like, oh, get more engaged because they, they need to lean forward and lean in.

Brian Hayes: 00:38:14

So body language and gestures are very important in sales.

Brian Hayes: 00:38:18

Very important.

Brian Hayes: 00:38:19

Like you need to be able to read the room and some people can't.

Brian Hayes: 00:38:22

And it's really hard to learn that.

Brian Hayes: 00:38:24

So it's really was developed because.

Brian Hayes: 00:38:27

Or it's going to be developed because that's what I would like.

Brian Hayes: 00:38:31

You know, as a salesperson, it was hard to practice your sales.

Brian Hayes: 00:38:34

The only way to practice was to do it.

Brian Hayes: 00:38:37

Call and burn leads.

Brian Hayes: 00:38:39

Like, you could totally mess up and then never be able to call that person again because they'll be like, oh, you're that guy, that girl, that person.

Brian Hayes: 00:38:47

So it allows you to role play, but it'll take from your previous interactions with clients and say, hey, we need to work on this.

Brian Hayes: 00:38:58

Hey, we need to work on that.

Brian Hayes: 00:38:59

So as a true companion.

Brian Hayes: 00:39:01

And it's kind of like the note takers where you invite them to the, to the zoom meeting where it'll take the notes, but instead of taking notes, it's doing different things.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:39:13

Wow, dude, that's actually really cool.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:39:16

Like, really cool.

Brian Hayes: 00:39:17

Thank you.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:39:17

That's a great idea.

Brian Hayes: 00:39:18

Thank you.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:39:19

I've never.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:39:20

I wasn't sure what it was before we had this conversation, but that's.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:39:23

That is actually super, super useful.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:39:26

Because some of the challenges that we see with our clients at Capital when we have meetings is simply that it's.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:39:33

We.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:39:34

We tend to attend the meetings with them to help take it to the next level.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:39:37

Because like you said, a lot of them struggle with that meeting dynamic.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:39:41

They're not really sure when to say what they need to say or how to ask for next steps or when to get more engaged.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:39:47

Right.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:39:47

So a little prompt like that sounds really, really useful, especially for a lot of these business owners doing their own sales.

Brian Hayes: 00:39:53

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:39:54

And it's not.

Brian Hayes: 00:39:56

It's the companion part I think is the most important.

Brian Hayes: 00:39:59

Like you were saying, it's, we need someone there because your sales manager or the business owner can't be at every single meeting or he has other things he needs to attend to.

Brian Hayes: 00:40:09

So it'll allow for him to know that, hey, it's being taken care of and I'll get a report later that they're all great.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:40:20

Yeah, yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:40:21

No, that's.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:40:21

I can.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:40:22

I can see this two ways.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:40:23

I can already see some salespeople being like, oh, shit, they're gonna send a report on how good I handled each meeting.

Brian Hayes: 00:40:28

Yep.

Brian Hayes: 00:40:29

And then there's some like, oh, no, they're recording it.

Brian Hayes: 00:40:32

You don't want to record my meetings.

Brian Hayes: 00:40:34

Yeah, yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:40:36

Well, yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:40:37

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:40:39

You're different when the camera's on and it's being recorded.

Brian Hayes: 00:40:42

Like, you act different.

Brian Hayes: 00:40:43

It's just like putting on a suit.

Brian Hayes: 00:40:45

You're like, we're gonna get a sale today.

Brian Hayes: 00:40:47

You know, it's like we're watching time to perform.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:40:52

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:40:53

And.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:40:53

Oh, man.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:40:54

And, you know, we can talk about that because I think that business development and sales, like, we live in a time when everybody's saying, like, we need to be more authentic.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:41:01

I actually completely agree with this.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:41:02

I think we need to be more authentic.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:41:04

We need to be more recognizing of people and when they're not doing okay.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:41:09

Right.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:41:09

But I faked a lot of meetings when I was feeling very, very shitty about whatever my current situation was.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:41:16

But I had to put on a brave face, put on the act, and be Kelly.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:41:21

Kelly Kennedy, the awesome business development guy who's super fun.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:41:24

I had to be that guy, even though I was not feeling congruent with that.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:41:29

And my advice now to business development people is when you're having an off day, don't be afraid to kind of say it.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:41:34

Don't be afraid to reschedule those meetings.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:41:36

Like, I'm.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:41:37

I'm of the opinion now that that was probably the wrong way to handle that situation.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:41:42

But at the time, I needed my paycheck, I needed to move forward, and I just put on the brave face and did it.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:41:47

But my gosh, dude, I've done a lot of meetings, feeling like a pile of crap inside.

Brian Hayes: 00:41:51

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:41:51

And there's.

Brian Hayes: 00:41:52

I do the very same thing.

Brian Hayes: 00:41:54

I never made a decision to do it.

Brian Hayes: 00:41:56

I just started doing it.

Brian Hayes: 00:41:57

You know, having your own company, you can kind of do that.

Brian Hayes: 00:42:01

You're the own.

Brian Hayes: 00:42:02

You're the boss, so I think he'll forgive you.

Brian Hayes: 00:42:05

But I would reschedule.

Brian Hayes: 00:42:06

And they're like, oh, you know what?

Brian Hayes: 00:42:07

I'm actually feeling bad too.

Brian Hayes: 00:42:09

Like, what's going on?

Brian Hayes: 00:42:10

And then we get into a relationship building conversation because we have something in common.

Brian Hayes: 00:42:16

Like, we both had a bad day.

Brian Hayes: 00:42:18

It's just odd timing.

Brian Hayes: 00:42:20

And then they become client, you know?

Brian Hayes: 00:42:23

So you never want to know.

Brian Hayes: 00:42:24

You never know how someone wants to purchase, and you never know how someone's going to connect with you.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:42:30

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:42:30

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:42:31

And I Think we've just spent so long pretending we're just.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:42:37

Yeah, yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:42:39

I love it.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:42:39

There is something really special about this time that we're heading into.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:42:42

I'm going to call it the post Covid era, because really, that's what.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:42:45

That's what seemed to have changed at all.

Brian Hayes: 00:42:46

Yep, absolutely.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:42:48

There is something about being real and authentic.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:42:50

And I just want to say, actually, I've watched a lot of your videos on LinkedIn.

Brian Hayes: 00:42:54

Yeah, thanks.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:42:55

You do a really great job of just being Brian Hayes showing up.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:43:00

And, you know, I imagine, too, that that's probably a post Covid thing, because we're all kind of playing with this.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:43:06

How can we be more human in the world on the Internet?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:43:09

Right.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:43:09

Instead of just being, you know, a business development person or a salesperson.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:43:12

Right.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:43:12

Like, there's people.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:43:13

There's people behind those titles.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:43:15

Yeah, we care.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:43:17

We want to know who they are.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:43:18

Right.

Brian Hayes: 00:43:18

Yes.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:43:18

And I just want to say you're doing a great job with your social stuff.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:43:21

You want to maybe chat a little bit about how you.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:43:24

How you approach your social media.

Brian Hayes: 00:43:27

You know, I want to say that there's a plan, but it's really, there's.

Brian Hayes: 00:43:31

I'm just looking for something that I think is going to resonate with others that show what I'm trying to do.

Brian Hayes: 00:43:40

So I'm.

Brian Hayes: 00:43:41

I'm not trying to show off.

Brian Hayes: 00:43:42

I'm just trying to show progress.

Brian Hayes: 00:43:44

I'm trying to show movement.

Brian Hayes: 00:43:46

I'm trying to show, hey, I'm doing something.

Brian Hayes: 00:43:49

You know, it's almost like that's my boss is my clients or potential clients, that's your boss.

Brian Hayes: 00:43:55

So you got to show them that you're moving, that you're doing something.

Brian Hayes: 00:43:58

You're not just stagnant and doing nothing.

Brian Hayes: 00:44:01

And, you know, when I look at someone's LinkedIn and they haven't posted, like, for months, it's not that I think bad about them.

Brian Hayes: 00:44:09

I just think, man, you could do more.

Brian Hayes: 00:44:11

Yeah, there's a little bit more than you could do, you know, like, provide something.

Brian Hayes: 00:44:15

So I'm just trying to put as much information out there that about myself and what I'm doing to show that to prospective clients.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:44:26

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:44:26

So there's no run or reason.

Brian Hayes: 00:44:28

I mean, there's like, I want to celebrate holidays, I want to celebrate things.

Brian Hayes: 00:44:32

But this whole podcast thing, this is all new.

Brian Hayes: 00:44:34

I have 12 of them lined up.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:44:37

Wow.

Brian Hayes: 00:44:37

Yeah, I was surprised about that, too.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:44:40

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:44:41

You're number four.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:44:43

Okay.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:44:44

Amazing.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:44:45

I love to be near the beginning.

Brian Hayes: 00:44:46

I wish you were number one, but I got some Practice out of the way.

Brian Hayes: 00:44:51

How about that?

Brian Hayes: 00:44:52

Yeah, yeah, but it's.

Brian Hayes: 00:44:54

There's no rhyme or reason.

Brian Hayes: 00:44:55

I'm just trying to show movement.

Brian Hayes: 00:44:57

And I think that's what we have to do in sales is you just have to show, hey, I'm doing something.

Brian Hayes: 00:45:02

Because you're showing investment time and energy and focus.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:45:07

You're also putting yourself out there, right?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:45:10

hink that that is currency in: 2024

Kelly Kennedy: 00:45:15

There's something that happened.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:45:16

I don't know when it happened.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:45:18

I wanna say, like: 2023

Kelly Kennedy: 00:45:19

I like to say that.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:45:20

Cause that's when I started this show.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:45:23

But I feel like a switch flipped, right?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:45:26

And it was like, look, you know companies, it's time to stop hiding behind your companies.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:45:32

People wanna know the owners of companies.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:45:34

They wanna know the CEOs, the executives, what they're doing, why they care, why what they're doing matters, how they're helping the world.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:45:40

And they don't just wanna hear about it.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:45:42

They wanna see you.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:45:44

And so it really is like getting out there and being front and center and basically taking ownership of who you are and sharing that with the world is currency.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:45:57

It really is.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:45:58

It's a currency in: 2024

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:00

And so I'm always kind of recommending people.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:02

I know it's scary.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:03

Like, take it from me, dude, we talked about this before the show.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:06

You were nervous and I was telling you, dude, I still get nervous.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:09

There's still plenty of times where I get nervous crap.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:15

Like, but.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:16

But it goes away, right?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:18

Like, I've interviewed people that scared the bejesus out of me.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:21

But within two minutes of that interview, I was feeling great.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:24

I was feeling fine.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:25

They were feeling fine.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:26

And you realize that it passes, right?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:28

Like, that fear, that, like fear you have, it's like it's.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:31

It's animal in nature.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:32

It really is.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:33

It, like, probably goes back to our caveman days.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:35

We're running from saber tooth tigers, right?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:37

But we're not running from saber tooth tigers anymore, right?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:40

Like, nothing in business is going to kill you, right?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:43

Like a bad phone call ain't going to kill you.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:44

A bad meeting ain't going to kill you.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:45

A speech ain't going to kill you, but we still internalize it.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:48

Like it's going to kill us and we get afraid.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:51

But what I've found, and, you know, don't get me wrong, like, I still have plenty of scary moments.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:55

I've had plenty of meetings where I get anxiety.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:46:57

And I'm probably in that for a minute or two at least in that time.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:47:01

But in my experience, it always passes.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:47:04

And maybe I'll find the day it doesn't.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:47:06

But I haven't found that day yet.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:09

Like, oh, it hasn't left.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:10

I'm still.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:11

Butterflies are still there.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:47:13

It's been three days.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:14

I'll let you know and then go away.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:16

No, that's right.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:47:17

But you mean I'm always here encouraging people to just take the jump.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:21

Well, we don't want to be judged.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:22

We don't want to be judged.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:23

And we.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:24

And if we are judged, we want to be judged.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:26

Well, and that's the hard part is.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:30

And I tell this to.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:32

I have a young man working with me.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:35

His name's Linus Mueller out of Switzerland.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:37

It was so crazy, so much fun.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:40

I always tell him, don't put your words in their mouth.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:45

Don't take their.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:46

Your perspective and assume that's their perspective.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:49

So don't assume anything.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:52

Manage your expectations.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:54

Understand that there could be another possibility.

Brian Hayes: 00:47:57

Like, what if they're judging me?

Brian Hayes: 00:47:59

Well, what if it's good?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:02

Sure.

Brian Hayes: 00:48:03

So it's just that.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:05

Well, and I think we're our biggest judges.

Brian Hayes: 00:48:09

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:10

Like, I'm judging me all the time.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:13

Right.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:14

Like, oh, I've.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:16

I've had plenty of shows where I listen to it.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:18

Like, I'll tell you straight up, episode three of the business development podcast.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:22

I didn't want to release it.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:23

I didn't want to release it.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:25

I didn't like the show.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:26

Nobody noticed.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:27

Nobody noticed.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:28

I made mistakes.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:28

Whatever else, nobody noticed anything.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:30

I have no fear now saying, like, if you guys want to hear the episode that I hated, it was episode.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:36

There was really nothing wrong with it.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:38

I was judging myself.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:40

And I like.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:41

And we all do it.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:43

We all do it.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:43

But, like, what I'm kind of getting at here is I released episode three anyway.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:48:49

Never got one negative comment from.

Brian Hayes: 00:48:52

Isn't that funny?

Brian Hayes: 00:48:54

Right?

Brian Hayes: 00:48:56

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:48:56

I always say, don't put your perspective in their mouth.

Brian Hayes: 00:48:59

And that's a big thing when you're in sales, because you're going to think, oh, they probably don't like my product, or, oh, maybe the price is too high and they're not going to like the price.

Brian Hayes: 00:49:09

And so you're going to deliver it with that in mind.

Brian Hayes: 00:49:13

People vibe on that.

Brian Hayes: 00:49:15

Like, yeah, like, even though we're states and miles apart, like, I got you.

Brian Hayes: 00:49:21

I can hear your wavelength.

Brian Hayes: 00:49:24

And so people will pick up on that how you register.

Brian Hayes: 00:49:28

And this is our price, you know, so they're gonna.

Brian Hayes: 00:49:33

They're gonna push back on that totally.

Brian Hayes: 00:49:35

So you just don't.

Brian Hayes: 00:49:36

Don't put your perspective out there.

Brian Hayes: 00:49:39

The negative ones, you know well, and.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:49:43

What you kind of touched on right there in.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:49:45

In literally the way that you said, this is our price.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:49:48

There was a massive lack of confidence.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:49:50

Yeah, a massive lack of confidence.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:49:53

And I will tell you the difference between closing that deal is saying this is our price versus this is our price.

Brian Hayes: 00:50:02

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:50:03

This is.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:06

Like you said, body language.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:08

Right?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:09

Body language.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:09

The way you say things really matters.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:11

It was funny.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:12

I was actually coaching a guy not that long ago and he's like, I'm sending so many of these emails.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:18

I'm making all these phone calls.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:19

I said, you know, from the email, it kind of sounds okay, but there's a couple things you're saying here that aren't conveying your confidence.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:27

It's coming across with an unsureness and talking to him on the phone and he kind of went through the pitch with me and literally the correction was so minor, but it was primarily to do with the way that he sounded on the phone.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:39

I really need you to come through confident in your product and service.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:42

Like it's something they actually want.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:43

Like they're really going to want to meet with you.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:45

And even in the email, it was like, I need you to stop asking them and let them know that you're available at these times.

Brian Hayes: 00:50:50

Next time.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:51

You'd love to meet with me.

Brian Hayes: 00:50:52

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:53

Right.

Brian Hayes: 00:50:54

Rule number one, everyone has.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:56

So stupid.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:50:57

It's dumb because you look at those two things and you think, well, yeah, but honestly, it's the small intricacies that are hanging you up.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:51:06

It's probably.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:51:07

It's probably something pretty minor.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:09

Yes, yes.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:11

And that's the hardest part is to pick it out and kind of going back to what we were saying before.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:16

Look for help, ask people for help.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:19

I had to go outside of my home state, Dallas, Texas or my.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:23

My home town.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:25

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:26

Out of the town I live in to find help for elevate X sales.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:30

Because the.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:31

My network, that's your net worth.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:34

Not that they wouldn't help me.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:35

They all said, don't do it.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:37

Go back and get a job.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:38

Like, you already tried, man.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:39

You didn't get it.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:40

It's okay.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:41

Just be a normal guy.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:43

Go work a job and do your thing.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:46

And I had to look outside of country to find help.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:51

And that's just the craziest part.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:53

So you just have to look for.

Brian Hayes: 00:51:56

Look for a tool and then put it together.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:52:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:52:03

No, it really is.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:52:04

And you know, you touched on something that to me seems very, like, obvious, but is really not Obvious.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:52:11

Can you maybe elaborate?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:52:13

You talked about empathy.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:52:15

That's something that is like one of your key traits, empathy in sales.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:52:20

You hear a lot about people being empathetic.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:52:24

Empathetic or being.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:52:25

What is it?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:52:26

Emotionally intelligent is the other word.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:52:29

But can we maybe go into depth about how companies can better utilize empathy in their sales process?

Brian Hayes: 00:52:36

Empathy, if you don't know what empathy is, is.

Brian Hayes: 00:52:40

You're.

Brian Hayes: 00:52:41

You're looking outside their eyes and experiencing their life.

Brian Hayes: 00:52:45

Not with your knowledge, not with your opinions.

Brian Hayes: 00:52:48

You need to get to know who they are and pretend for a moment that you were them.

Brian Hayes: 00:52:56

And how would they want to be treated if.

Brian Hayes: 00:53:00

Or how would you want to be treated if you were in their shoes?

Brian Hayes: 00:53:03

And that is the hardest part because we put our opinions in there.

Brian Hayes: 00:53:07

And I'm like, no, no.

Brian Hayes: 00:53:08

No opinions, no knowledge.

Brian Hayes: 00:53:10

You are that person.

Brian Hayes: 00:53:11

How would you feel?

Brian Hayes: 00:53:13

And I think that companies can really benefit from this, especially when they do mass layoffs.

Brian Hayes: 00:53:20

Like, come on, like, I know you want to save some money, but is there another way?

Brian Hayes: 00:53:26

And there probably is, and maybe there isn't, you know, so you have to make that understanding of, well, how would it feel if I got fired?

Brian Hayes: 00:53:36

If I was in their shoes with their life, with their kids, with their responsibilities, not my own responsibility.

Brian Hayes: 00:53:44

And I think people, in order to really do empathy, you have to drop what you have and pretend that you're them.

Brian Hayes: 00:53:54

And that's hard.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:53:56

It is.

Brian Hayes: 00:53:56

And I had to do that as a personal trainer.

Brian Hayes: 00:53:59

I had to really do that.

Brian Hayes: 00:54:01

And that was the only way I learned empathy.

Brian Hayes: 00:54:04

And how to do it was, you know, envisioning if I was that person doing that exercise, that movement, how would that make me feel if I was self conscious about being in the gym?

Brian Hayes: 00:54:16

Because I know that person.

Brian Hayes: 00:54:17

That's what that person told me.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:54:19

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:54:20

So, like, why would I put them in that obvious of a uncomfortable situation?

Brian Hayes: 00:54:28

Yeah, it's something you gotta practice.

Brian Hayes: 00:54:30

It's a perspective in life that's really tough.

Brian Hayes: 00:54:33

My poor fiance is like, why don't you do empathy with me?

Brian Hayes: 00:54:36

I was like, honey, I already know what you're saying.

Brian Hayes: 00:54:38

Like, quiet down.

Brian Hayes: 00:54:43

But it's something you need to continue to practice and, like, think about, like, how would it really be to be them.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:54:51

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 00:54:51

Not me, them.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:54:53

And I think you have to ask.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:54:57

Right?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:54:59

I think the other side of it is, like you said, you can't think like Kelly Kennedy and I can't think like Brian Hayes because I don't live in your mind every day.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:55:06

I don't live in your world or your experience.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:55:09

And so my advice, and I don't know how you feel about this, might simply be to ask.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:55:14

If you have questions about how they feel about something, don't be afraid to ask because like you said before, you don't know what people are thinking and you can't assume or you'll make an ass out of you and me.

Brian Hayes: 00:55:28

Yes, it's true.

Brian Hayes: 00:55:31

Open ended questions.

Brian Hayes: 00:55:32

And if you actually are curious, like that's another thing with empathy is like, I actually want to know.

Brian Hayes: 00:55:38

I'm not just checking something off my list, like, I want to know because I'm trying to understand you, like, tell me about that, like why and really ask those open ended questions to try to figure it out and just be genuinely like, I just want to know.

Brian Hayes: 00:55:53

Yeah, I'm not just trying to make a sale.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:55:57

One of the things that I really wanted to chat with you about, Brian, is I wanted to better understand some of the challenges that you're seeing in the sales field.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:56:06

You know, you've been, you've had elevate X, you're out there working with companies.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:56:11

What are some of the challenges that you're running into fairly consistently?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:56:14

What are you seeing on a consistent basis with these companies you're working with?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:56:18

Are there like a handful of challenges that seem to be coming up pretty consistently?

Brian Hayes: 00:56:22

Yes.

Brian Hayes: 00:56:23

Sourcing contact information for a prospect and then trying to like find a database.

Brian Hayes: 00:56:32

Everyone uses the same database right now.

Brian Hayes: 00:56:34

It's called Apollo I.O.

Brian Hayes: 00:56:37

and everyone's calling the same people, the same type, but it's trying to find, not trying to narrow it down.

Brian Hayes: 00:56:44

It's like, when should I call them and who should I call?

Brian Hayes: 00:56:48

And finding it specifically.

Brian Hayes: 00:56:50

They don't know their data.

Brian Hayes: 00:56:52

They're like, yeah, we want someone that is male between the age of 25 and 45.

Brian Hayes: 00:56:57

I'm like, no, that's not even close.

Brian Hayes: 00:57:00

Like, what are, who are they?

Brian Hayes: 00:57:02

Yeah, like really get into who they are and who is your customer.

Brian Hayes: 00:57:08

That's the biggest, I think the number one biggest struggle.

Brian Hayes: 00:57:12

They don't know their target audience, they don't know how to sell to them and they also don't know how to buy, how they want to buy.

Brian Hayes: 00:57:20

Because some people want to communicate through WhatsApp, some people want to communicate through LinkedIn, some people are texting, hey, give me a call, leave me a voicemail, I'll call you back.

Brian Hayes: 00:57:29

You know, some.

Brian Hayes: 00:57:30

So you just have to figure out how they want to buy and how they want to communicate.

Brian Hayes: 00:57:34

Those are the two biggest ones.

Brian Hayes: 00:57:37

The other one, I think it's less Important, but it's still pretty important, is retaining salespeople like good salespeople.

Brian Hayes: 00:57:48

Yes, that's a big one.

Brian Hayes: 00:57:51

And so they, they're even.

Brian Hayes: 00:57:53

Even if they hired me, they're like, are you gonna leave?

Brian Hayes: 00:57:56

Like, probably.

Brian Hayes: 00:57:57

You say that.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:58:00

You'Re already priming me.

Brian Hayes: 00:58:01

Man, I'm already gone, man.

Brian Hayes: 00:58:04

You signed that already.

Brian Hayes: 00:58:06

Yeah, but it's, it's capturing someone's attention and keeping it.

Brian Hayes: 00:58:12

Yeah, and that's hard in sales, I think, because everyone's looking for the grab greener grass on the other side.

Brian Hayes: 00:58:19

Sometimes it is greener and sometimes it's not.

Brian Hayes: 00:58:21

Sometimes it's worse.

Brian Hayes: 00:58:23

You just don't see it because you want to see it a different way.

Brian Hayes: 00:58:27

Putting your perspective.

Brian Hayes: 00:58:28

You're putting your, your opinion out there again.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:58:32

Yeah, yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:58:33

Well, I think one of the biggest challenges we have now, and you know, we talked about this ahead of the show, is that people are getting bombarded with so much stuff that's promising them things that I think me and, you know, are probably not going to happen.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:58:45

Yeah, but they don't know that, right?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:58:47

Like, they don't know if they get, if they get someone coming up to them and saying, like, hey, I got this virtual assistant that can get you 50 leads in the next week.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:58:54

They don't know what to believe and what not to believe.

Kelly Kennedy: 00:58:57

Do you have any, like, guidelines or rules that you would maybe give to companies to better screen out what is an authentically good move versus what is, you know, a high risk move?

Kelly Kennedy: 00:59:08

And I think the reason they're so confused is because like you said, with the advent of AI, nobody knows what's really possible and what's not possible.

Brian Hayes: 00:59:14

Yep, yep.

Brian Hayes: 00:59:16

I am looking at my spam box and I deleted, like, at least every day.

Brian Hayes: 00:59:20

I got.

Brian Hayes: 00:59:21

I have received 66 different email, probably AI, most of them AI.

Brian Hayes: 00:59:29

My opinion and my advice is ask them to do it for free.

Brian Hayes: 00:59:36

Like, okay, show me, show me the money.

Brian Hayes: 00:59:40

Show me the real stuff.

Brian Hayes: 00:59:42

Like, make them prove it.

Brian Hayes: 00:59:44

And I don't know how that is for anyone's business, but make them prove it.

Brian Hayes: 00:59:48

And not testimonials.

Brian Hayes: 00:59:50

Oh, well, this person said this about me.

Brian Hayes: 00:59:52

Well, that's, that's great.

Brian Hayes: 00:59:54

It's not me.

Brian Hayes: 00:59:55

Like, prove it for me.

Brian Hayes: 00:59:57

So bring me value and I'll provide you value, which is my time and your ability to represent or maybe your client.

Brian Hayes: 01:00:06

So you have to always bring value.

Brian Hayes: 01:00:08

So when I call somebody, I'm like, hey, I thought that this would benefit you.

Brian Hayes: 01:00:16

Do you have a moment to talk about something that benefits me?

Brian Hayes: 01:00:22

So you're asking for their time, but you're paying for it.

Brian Hayes: 01:00:27

At least that's how it is in Real Estate City.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:29

Okay.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:31

Yeah, I know, man.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:32

Like I.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:33

Like you said, like, my inbox too, is full of it.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:35

And the funny thing is, it's like, obviously I have a business development firm where we focus on active marketing.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:40

So we're not really using AI, right?

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:41

Like, we're using old school, real phone calls, real people doing real work.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:45

Like, that's, that's what I've always found.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:47

Just worked and.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:48

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:48

Is it, Is it, Does it, does it take a minute?

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:50

Yeah, it takes a minute.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:51

There's nothing that's fast.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:52

There's nothing that's going to happen overnight.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:54

Business development is not a race, right?

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:56

No, good business development takes time.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:58

I've said that since the very beginning.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:00:59

But it's effective, very effective, especially with active marketing.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:02

But you know, I use AI tools, right?

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:05

Like we use ChatGPT to help us with some copy.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:08

I still throw myself back into it and I always tell people, stop completely copying and pasting because you sound like a robot.

Brian Hayes: 01:01:15

Or you use a word that you're not normally using.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:18

That's right.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:19

That's right.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:19

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:20

If there's a word that you're like, I'd never use that.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:22

Put your word in there.

Brian Hayes: 01:01:24

Yes.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:25

But you know, not just that, not just ChatGPT, right?

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:28

Like, obviously, running this podcast, I use AI tools.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:31

We use stuff like Riverside, which we're in right now recording this show.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:35

We use opus clips to help us with the clips.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:36

We use other things to help us with the transcripts and our audiograms and other things that we like to put out with our shows.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:43

So there's a lot of tools being used and some of them are very redundant because they have maybe one thing that the other one doesn't have.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:52

So I need to keep the stupid tool even though I'm paying stupid amounts of money for all of these monthly subscriptions.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:58

Right.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:01:58

And it's driving me bonkers.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:02:00

And.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:02:01

Oh, man, Like, I just, I know people are being inundated with these crazy AI tools and they don't know what to go with or what's effective.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:02:10

And like I said, we're using redundant ones that can maybe do something that other people do.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:02:14

You have any advice for people that are.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:02:16

That are using these tools?

Brian Hayes: 01:02:17

It's AI is never going to replace you.

Brian Hayes: 01:02:20

As much as someone says they're going to, it's not going to.

Brian Hayes: 01:02:26

And the reason for that is people buy from people and that's always going to be because they want to hold someone accountable.

Brian Hayes: 01:02:34

So if they're reaching out and saying, oh, we'll reach out and we'll set all these appointments for you, we'll.

Brian Hayes: 01:02:42

They're not going to be quality.

Brian Hayes: 01:02:43

They're not going to be there.

Brian Hayes: 01:02:44

Just probably someone's like, yeah, just messing around because he knows it's the AI.

Brian Hayes: 01:02:48

So use what is not time tested, but use what is authentic and real and it's never going to replace you.

Brian Hayes: 01:03:00

And just use it as a tool.

Brian Hayes: 01:03:01

That's all it is.

Brian Hayes: 01:03:02

It's supposed to help you be a better you, not replace anything.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:03:08

And that's why I think I really love the idea of your tool, Ty, because that's going to be so cool.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:03:13

Because that's the problem.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:03:14

That is a real life problem.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:03:15

We're doing lots of meetings.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:03:17

Business owners are meeting with people all the time.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:03:19

If they had a tool that could be live action with them, giving them ideas on how to better execute a meeting.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:03:26

My gosh, how powerful.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:03:27

That's a really great idea.

Brian Hayes: 01:03:28

Thank you.

Brian Hayes: 01:03:29

Thank you.

Brian Hayes: 01:03:29

I need to hurry up because someone's going to take this idea.

Brian Hayes: 01:03:32

Let's open this podcast while you have.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:03:33

A little bit of time.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:03:34

This show is probably releasing about four months from now, so you just got to be faster than that.

Brian Hayes: 01:03:39

Yes.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:03:41

No pressure.

Brian Hayes: 01:03:44

Clock starts today.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:03:46

Oh, Brian, it's been an honor, dude.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:03:48

Thank you for coming on and sharing this with us.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:03:49

You know, I would love it if you would chat a little bit about Elevate X, though.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:03:53

Can you tell us a little bit about what services you offer, what areas you serve, and then we'll go from there?

Brian Hayes: 01:03:57

Absolutely.

Brian Hayes: 01:03:58

Elevate X Sales is a marketing agency for commercial real estate professionals and commercial real estate owners.

Brian Hayes: 01:04:08

And we're offering a suite of services from just regular social media marketing to doing it for you and setting tours and reaching out to specific tenants in a geographic area that might be interested in a vacant space that you have at your building or then we'll actually do it for you, which is we're actually going to take the deal from the initial online presence, the lead to tour, to closing the deal and facilitating the transaction.

Brian Hayes: 01:04:43

And it's.

Brian Hayes: 01:04:45

We're trying to bring life to commercial real estate.

Brian Hayes: 01:04:48

Bring some not authenticity, but bring some entertainment to it.

Brian Hayes: 01:04:53

Boring.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:04:54

Yeah.

Brian Hayes: 01:04:55

And everyone knows, everyone thinks it's just about the numbers.

Brian Hayes: 01:04:58

And so we need to add some color to it and really paint a better picture of what it's going to be for your business.

Brian Hayes: 01:05:05

So we're putting out specific content, property tours, kind of like, I don't know if you've ever seen the Property Brothers.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:05:12

Yep.

Brian Hayes: 01:05:12

Where they actually will go in with their camera and then all of a sudden they're like, oh, and it can do this.

Brian Hayes: 01:05:17

And all this stuff turns and all the walls come down.

Brian Hayes: 01:05:20

I want to do that for commercial real estate.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:05:24

Very cool, Very cool.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:05:26

And, you know, obviously you're in Dallas.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:05:28

We've talked about that.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:05:29

But is this, like, North America wide?

Kelly Kennedy: 01:05:32

Like, is there anywhere you wouldn't service?

Brian Hayes: 01:05:34

Well, the only difference, I can practice real estate, and so it depends on which package you decide, but it can be anywhere because the rules and regulations will be upheld when it comes to the advertising portion of it.

Brian Hayes: 01:05:48

But when it comes to the actual execution of the transaction, I can do stuff in Texas, I can do stuff outside of Texas, but I have to have.

Brian Hayes: 01:05:56

I have to facilitate with a broker in that area to do it legally.

Brian Hayes: 01:06:01

So then that becomes sticky.

Brian Hayes: 01:06:03

So we can do it all in the United States, North America.

Brian Hayes: 01:06:05

It depends on what your real estate regulations are.

Brian Hayes: 01:06:09

And we would have to talk about that on a.

Brian Hayes: 01:06:11

On a separate one.

Brian Hayes: 01:06:12

But the other services, SEO Management Online.

Brian Hayes: 01:06:16

Think of it as your online listing in your online presence of your property.

Brian Hayes: 01:06:20

Does it have a social media presence?

Brian Hayes: 01:06:22

Does it even have a following?

Brian Hayes: 01:06:23

Or is it gaining cobwebs?

Brian Hayes: 01:06:25

Like, tell me about it.

Brian Hayes: 01:06:27

You know, let's.

Brian Hayes: 01:06:28

Let's put out as much information to reach as many people because someone might use Facebook, someone might use YouTube, someone might use LinkedIn, but they're all going to be a target tenant for you, so you might as well try them all.

Brian Hayes: 01:06:42

And that's what we're doing, as well as email and cold call outreach and things of that nature.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:06:46

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:06:47

The reason I asked is that, you know, obviously we have a large North American audience, we have a big Canadian audience and a big U.S.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:06:52

audience.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:06:53

And I did just want to know, can you service Canada?

Kelly Kennedy: 01:06:55

Is that on the table for you?

Brian Hayes: 01:06:56

I would love to.

Brian Hayes: 01:06:58

International.

Brian Hayes: 01:06:58

That is definitely in the plans.

Brian Hayes: 01:07:01

Definitely in the plans.

Brian Hayes: 01:07:02

When it comes to execution of a transaction, I would probably refer that to a local real estate professional there to do the negotiations and the transaction.

Brian Hayes: 01:07:13

But the online presence of it.

Brian Hayes: 01:07:15

Absolutely.

Brian Hayes: 01:07:16

I would fly to Canada just to make some content.

Brian Hayes: 01:07:19

That would be so much fun.

Brian Hayes: 01:07:21

Just not in the winter.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:07:22

I was going to say we got some nice mountains, but yeah, I would say keep it to spring and summer.

Brian Hayes: 01:07:28

Because it's better for the lighting of the video.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:07:32

Absolutely, Absolutely.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:07:33

Brian, thank you so much.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:07:35

We've been graced today by Brian Hayes of Elevate X Sales.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:07:38

And thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:07:39

Your vulnerability.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:07:40

I think, I think we probably helped that one or two businesses today.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:07:44

So I think we did what we set out to do.

Brian Hayes: 01:07:46

Yes.

Kelly Kennedy: 01:07:46

Until next time, this has been episode 182 of the Business Development Podcast and we will catch you on the flip side.

Brian Hayes: 01:07:56

Bye everyone.

Mark Cuban: 01:07:58

This has been the Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kelly Kennedy.

Mark Cuban: 01:08:03

business development firm in: 2020

Mark Cuban: 01:08:14

His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development.

Mark Cuban: 01:08:20

The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your business development specialists.

Mark Cuban: 01:08:27

For more, we invite you to the website at www.capitalbd.ca.

Mark Cuban: 01:08:34

see you next time on the Business Development Podcast.