Episode 196
Empowering Black Tech Talent: How Jermaine Murray is Redefining Recruitment
In this episode of The Business Development Podcast, Kelly Kennedy sits down with Jermaine Murray, founder of Jupiter HR and a trailblazer in the tech recruitment space. Known as “The Jobfather,” Jermaine has revolutionized hiring practices for Black professionals in tech, helping over 400 individuals secure life-changing roles while building a talent community of over 10,000 members. Jermaine shares his journey from a challenging job market experience to creating a purpose-driven business that champions equity and opportunity. With strategic partnerships with companies like Shopify and Spotify and a strong presence on platforms like LinkedIn and Twitter, Jermaine reveals how advocacy, transparency, and community have been pivotal in his success.
The conversation delves into the realities of systemic bias in recruitment and how businesses can create more equitable hiring processes. Jermaine reflects on his entrepreneurial journey, discussing the lessons he’s learned, the challenges of balancing passion with practicality, and how persistence has fueled his mission. Whether you’re an entrepreneur, recruiter, or advocate for change, this episode offers valuable insights into breaking barriers and making an impact in business and beyond. Don't miss this inspiring conversation with a leader who’s redefining what it means to build opportunities in the tech industry.
Key Takeaways:
1. Passion is the foundation of entrepreneurship; solve a problem that deeply resonates with you.
2. Taking imperfect action is better than waiting for the perfect plan—start and refine as you go.
3. Building diversity in hiring requires active sourcing and intentional efforts to include underrepresented talent.
4. Systemic bias in recruitment persists, but advocacy and transparency can drive meaningful change.
5. A supportive community amplifies your mission and provides strength along the journey.
6. Transparency in job search strategies empowers candidates and builds trust.
7. Trial and error are part of growth—failures are steps toward future success.
8. Leadership buy-in is essential for sustainable diversity and inclusion efforts.
9. Your lived experiences and unique perspective are invaluable assets in business.
10. Stay open and prepared for unexpected opportunities—they often lead to the greatest success.
Struggling to find clarity or direction in your business development journey?
Building a thriving business can feel overwhelming at times—balancing growth strategies, finding the right opportunities, and staying motivated through the ups and downs. If you’ve ever felt stuck, uncertain, or like you’re spinning your wheels without seeing results, you’re not alone.
That’s why I’ve dedicated my career to helping entrepreneurs, business owners, and professionals like you take control of their business development strategy. Together, we’ll break through barriers, tackle the challenges you’re facing, and create a clear, actionable plan for growth.
💡 Ready to take the next step? Discover personalized coaching designed to meet you where you are and take you where you want to be. Start your journey today and unlock your potential with the tools, strategies, and guidance you need to succeed.
🔗 Begin your transformation now: Capital Business Development Coaching
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Shopify
- Wealthsimple
- Spotify
- CNBC
- Jupiter HR
- Capital Business Development
Transcript
Welcome to episode 196 of the Business Development Podcast.
Kelly Kennedy:And today it is my absolute pleasure to bring you the job father himself, Jermaine Murray, a man who is making waves in Canada's recruitment industry.
Kelly Kennedy:Stick with us.
Kelly Kennedy:You are not going to want to miss this episode.
Podcast Host:The great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years.
Podcast Host:Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal.
Podcast Host:And we couldn't agree more.
Podcast Host:This is the business of Development Podcast, based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and broadcasting to the world.
Podcast Host:You'll get expert business development advice, tips and experiences and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs and business development reps.
Podcast Host:You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business brought to you by capital business development.
Podcast Host:Capitalbd.com let's do it.
Podcast Host:Welcome to the Business Development Podcast.
Podcast Host:And now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.
Kelly Kennedy:Hello.
Kelly Kennedy:Welcome to episode 196 of the Business Development Podcast and today we have an absolutely amazing, amazing Canadian to introduce you to.
Kelly Kennedy:Today we're chatting with Jermaine Murray.
Kelly Kennedy:Jermaine is a dynamic leader and the visionary founder of Jupiter hr where he has revolutionized the hiring landscape for black professionals in the tech industry.
Kelly Kennedy: Since: Kelly Kennedy:His strategic partnership with industry giants like Shopify, wealth simple and Spotify have empowered countless individuals through innovative job search workshops.
Kelly Kennedy:Additionally, Germaine's successful Twitter campaigns have garnered over 1 million impressions monthly, further amplifying his impact on the tech recruitment sector.
Kelly Kennedy:His dedication to talent advocacy, CV writing, interview preparation and career consulting has made him a sought after expert, particularly for candidates in video production, marketing, sales and it's beyond Jupiter HR.
Kelly Kennedy:Jermaine is an influential course instructor for CNBC's Make it guiding individuals to ace their interviews and secure their dream jobs.
Kelly Kennedy:His diverse experience spans roles as senior recruitment consultant, columnist and board member for various esteemed organizations.
Kelly Kennedy:Germain's leadership skills and commitment to diversity and inclusion have been the driving forces behind his success, making him a trailblazer in the recruitment industry.
Kelly Kennedy:With a proven track record of transforming job seekers into hired professionals and a passion for fostering equitable opportunities, Jermaine is not just a recruiter, he is a game changer in the tech world.
Kelly Kennedy:And Jermaine, it is an honor to have you on the show today.
Jermaine Murray:Thank you so much for having me.
Jermaine Murray:I appreciate it.
Jermaine Murray:Kelly.
Jermaine Murray:Yo, that was a.
Jermaine Murray:That was an intro thank you, thank.
Kelly Kennedy:You, thank you for coming to us all the way from Spain today.
Kelly Kennedy:We chatted about this before the show, but Jermaine's been staying in Spain and he's going to be there for a year.
Kelly Kennedy:And man, what an adventure.
Kelly Kennedy:That's so cool.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jermaine Murray:It's, you know, shout outs to, to my partner.
Jermaine Murray:She's, she's brilliant and she hit me with the whole.
Jermaine Murray:One day, she just hit me out of l.
Jermaine Murray:Hey, would you like to move to Spain with me?
Jermaine Murray:And I said, yeah, sure, why not?
Jermaine Murray:And my thinking was, you know what?
Jermaine Murray:I'll leave it up to fate.
Jermaine Murray:If, you know, if we get the visa, then it's a yes, go with it.
Jermaine Murray:If we don't, then I'm a chill in Toronto.
Jermaine Murray:And then we got the visa and I was like, ah, okay, this is, this is happening.
Jermaine Murray:All right, let's go.
Jermaine Murray:And I've been out here since December and it's, it's been a great experience.
Kelly Kennedy:Wow.
Kelly Kennedy:First off, like, so cool, Like, I can't imagine.
Kelly Kennedy:I would love to see Spain.
Kelly Kennedy:I can't wait one day.
Kelly Kennedy:I'm going to travel, I promise.
Kelly Kennedy:We talked about this before the show.
Kelly Kennedy:I have, like, barely left North America ever.
Kelly Kennedy:So it's kind of one of those things where it's like, it's ambitions for my future someday.
Jermaine Murray:Hey, man, I'm here for it.
Jermaine Murray:I fully encourage the traveling that, that it will actually, like, change your life, I bet.
Kelly Kennedy:But what has it been like, you know, like, you have a successful company.
Kelly Kennedy:Was that not a little bit scary to just be like, okay, like, I'm just going to move to Spain for a year and still operate my company and all, like, is not like, whoa, Nah.
Jermaine Murray:To be honest with you, a lot of, like, a lot of the work that I've been doing has always primarily online.
Jermaine Murray:And so, like, and then even, like, prior to, like, my, My partner and I are very passionate about traveling.
Jermaine Murray:Like, before, before Spain, we have this, like, little joke that, like, the pandemic, particularly the pandemic, like, locked in, locked her up and prevented her from traveling.
Jermaine Murray:So, like, she had to go get it back in blood.
Jermaine Murray:And we were like, hopping to different countries.
Jermaine Murray:We were fortunate enough to be both working at places that allowed us to, like, you know, have the ability to work remotely.
Jermaine Murray:So, like, we did like, we did like a month in Mexico, we did a few weeks in Italy, we did a few weeks in Greece, a few weeks in Spain.
Jermaine Murray:It was just like, different, different, different time zones.
Jermaine Murray:Just getting used to that.
Jermaine Murray:So being able to like, with like most of my work being online, it was just a matter of like making sure that the time zone alignment worked.
Jermaine Murray:And I think one of the things I enjoy the most about working from Europe is that there is a six, seven hour time difference with back home.
Jermaine Murray:So it's almost like I've been able to live in like two different worlds at the same time.
Jermaine Murray:And like, you know, I get up, I'm able to go and I'm able to work out and I'm able to like, you know, grab a smoothie, chill a little bit, you know, catch up on some Dragon Ball Z.
Jermaine Murray:And then my work day starts at like 5:36.
Jermaine Murray:Right.
Jermaine Murray:I have late, I have late ish nights of course, but like it's, it's, it's actually been like really good and like a lot easier than I first anticipated.
Kelly Kennedy:What time is it for you right now?
Jermaine Murray:10:21Pm oh dude, you're a rock star.
Kelly Kennedy:It is 2:21 for me.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jermaine Murray:Now you good?
Jermaine Murray:You good?
Jermaine Murray:You good?
Jermaine Murray:You good?
Jermaine Murray:You good?
Kelly Kennedy:Oh man.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah, it's, it's crazy to think like, you know, what the Internet has done.
Kelly Kennedy:Like the fact that we can even have this conversation, that people even have the opportunity to work remotely, like, exactly.
Kelly Kennedy:It just blows my mind a little bit.
Kelly Kennedy:What, like, how much has happened in such a short period of time.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, it's, it's crazy too.
Jermaine Murray: s and the: Jermaine Murray:And it would sound like the corporate accordions, old people thing.
Jermaine Murray:And now like, you know, and at the time it was like surfing the web was just like what, a couple of message boards or something.
Jermaine Murray:But like the movies and like the, the programming always had the Internet look like this place of like freedom or like this place of like expression.
Jermaine Murray:And in a way like, you know, things have changed, things have been restricted, but it's still kind of freeing in that aspect because like at the end of the day it's all like one big way of communicating with one another.
Jermaine Murray:And that's, that's, that's why we're able to kind of build off of that foundation.
Kelly Kennedy:Well, you know, and I don't know how old you are, but I'm 35.
Kelly Kennedy:Okay.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, I'm.
Jermaine Murray:I'm.
Jermaine Murray:When you hit your 30s, you stop counting.
Jermaine Murray:Actually.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah, it's like it doesn't matter anymore.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah.
Jermaine Murray:Because it's like it was.
Jermaine Murray:It was, it was easy, it was easier.
Jermaine Murray: ago where I'm like, oh, it's: Jermaine Murray:That means I'm 20.
Jermaine Murray:So I am 23.
Jermaine Murray:And I.
Jermaine Murray:Sorry, I'm 33.
Jermaine Murray:Okay.
Jermaine Murray:November.
Kelly Kennedy:You look amazing for 23.
Kelly Kennedy:Oh, dude.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah, it's crazy.
Kelly Kennedy:I read a thing the other day and it was kind of like, really eye opening.
Kelly Kennedy:And me and you are from a weird in between generation.
Kelly Kennedy:Right?
Kelly Kennedy:Like, we live in two worlds.
Kelly Kennedy:We lived in the world before the Internet.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:And before cell phones and before tech, and yet we also live in the world with all those things and still know how to use them.
Kelly Kennedy:And they were talking about how, like, there needs to be more leaders from our generation because we've seen it from both sides.
Kelly Kennedy:And, you know, like, Gen Z is a little too young to understand that world and Gen X doesn't know what they're doing.
Kelly Kennedy:So it's like, hey, millennials, we need to do more leadership because we actually have experienced so much.
Kelly Kennedy:And it's like, I can't.
Kelly Kennedy:I can't even believe sometimes how much the world has changed since, like, me and you were like 10 years old.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, it's a completely different world.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, I think about Napster all the time.
Jermaine Murray:And I think about, like, how revolutionary Napster was, you know, to be able to just play music off of your computer and not having to go to HMV or Sunrise to buy a CD and then see and then be like, oh, this can't be legal.
Jermaine Murray:And, like, the record label is going, this is not legal.
Jermaine Murray:Killing Napster and then seeing Spotify, like, a good 10, 15 years later rise up from the ashes and be like, all right.
Jermaine Murray:Like, the record labels made their own version of Napster.
Jermaine Murray:Like, here it is.
Jermaine Murray:And it's like things happen in cycles that it's.
Jermaine Murray:It's actually hilarious.
Jermaine Murray:But, like, yeah, we've.
Jermaine Murray:We've seen it.
Jermaine Murray:We've seen it rise, you know, fall.
Jermaine Murray:We've seen it change.
Jermaine Murray:We've.
Jermaine Murray:We understand the nuances in it.
Jermaine Murray:My mom still looks at me at, like, as some sort of, like, technical genius.
Jermaine Murray:Whenever I, like, I plug out her rotor and, like, plug it back in.
Jermaine Murray:You know what I'm saying?
Jermaine Murray:And she's just like, magic.
Jermaine Murray:How did you do that?
Jermaine Murray:And it's just like, some things never change.
Kelly Kennedy:I'll be honest, dude.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, I'M a little bit afraid of that because technology is changing so quickly.
Kelly Kennedy:And I even find myself right now at 35, being like, oh, I don't know if I want to really learn the, like, the latest and greatest.
Kelly Kennedy:And, like, my kids, they love Fortnite.
Kelly Kennedy:I'm like, I can't even play this game.
Kelly Kennedy:And it's like, oh, my God.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, am I admitting I can't play a video game?
Kelly Kennedy:Like, Kelly, come on.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:It's crazy, dude.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, I didn't understand it, but now I'm getting to the age where it's like, oh, boy.
Kelly Kennedy:I don't want to end up like my mom or like my dad, where it's like, I don't even want to touch the new stuff.
Kelly Kennedy:So it's like I'm trying to challenge myself to take on all these new things, but realizing, like, okay, like, it's a real thing.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, there's gonna come a point where you have to make a conscious decision that you were gonna keep up with tech.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jermaine Murray:That was pretty much me.
Jermaine Murray:And, like, tick tock.
Jermaine Murray:Like, tick tock and Snapchat, right?
Jermaine Murray:Fortnite.
Jermaine Murray:All.
Jermaine Murray:All these new things, and it's like.
Jermaine Murray:Like, I'm like, damn.
Jermaine Murray:I realized that, like, if I don't, like, make that, like, if I don't brain to do it, I'm definitely going to be left behind.
Jermaine Murray:So, like, I try to be a bit more intentional, and I try to, like, make sure that, like, whatever technologies, I'm like, you know, I'm like, my brain speed.
Jermaine Murray:My brain can only take so much before it just goes, like, all right, time for a nap.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah.
Jermaine Murray:And, like, I shut down.
Jermaine Murray:You know, I think it's not.
Jermaine Murray:It's not uncommon for me to, like, fall asleep at my desk because of just.
Jermaine Murray:I'm overworked or because it's just too much.
Jermaine Murray:So, like, I'm very.
Jermaine Murray:I.
Jermaine Murray:I'll explore and research different technologies and tools, and I'll see what I can do with them and see what the value is.
Jermaine Murray:And then I'll make a decision on whether or not to incorporate that into, like, my quote unquote tech stack, which is, like, I've been doing with, like, some AI tools.
Jermaine Murray:But, yeah, at a certain point, you just.
Jermaine Murray:You just can't keep up.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah, you really.
Kelly Kennedy:You really can't.
Kelly Kennedy:And I would say, like, AI is a great example of that.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, it's changing so quickly.
Kelly Kennedy:There's, like, a new, latest, greatest AI program every single week.
Kelly Kennedy:And I've talked to so many people, I'M like, how do you know one?
Kelly Kennedy:It's like you don't just try.
Kelly Kennedy:You have to try them and see if they work for you.
Kelly Kennedy:And if they do great.
Kelly Kennedy:If they don't, don't.
Kelly Kennedy:And if something better comes along, replace it.
Kelly Kennedy:Right?
Kelly Kennedy:But like, that's like the level.
Kelly Kennedy:And especially in podcasting, like, that's the level of like AI that we're playing.
Kelly Kennedy:And it's like, you got to try it, see if it works, if it works great.
Kelly Kennedy:If it doesn't, no biggie.
Kelly Kennedy:The biggest problem that I see with the AI side is that every program is trying to incorporate a whole bunch of features so they can be that one program.
Kelly Kennedy:The rule of them.
Kelly Kennedy:All right?
Kelly Kennedy:But usually the things that it's incorporating in don't work as well as like the, the AIs that were dedicated to that one thing.
Kelly Kennedy:And so, yeah, it sucks.
Kelly Kennedy:It's like, it's like, I would love it if there was just one AI program that worked well for everything podcasting.
Kelly Kennedy:But the reality is I'm still using like four or five.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jermaine Murray:But that's like, that's, that just, that's like the toe.
Jermaine Murray:Like that's like technology and like crashing into like capitalism.
Jermaine Murray:Right?
Jermaine Murray:First there's the idea, then there's a popularity, and then there's somebody saying, hey, it would be great if we were like the infrastructure for that where everybody has to come to us for that.
Jermaine Murray:And like, for example, like, I remember when YouTube first launched in like 06 and it was like, it was the way, it was like revolutionary because you were able to like stream shows.
Jermaine Murray:I remember streaming like anime before they like cracked down on like, hey, that's illegal.
Jermaine Murray:You can't do that.
Jermaine Murray:And like we would be watching a episode of Naruto as 30 minutes into like 3, 10, 12 minute chunks, right?
Jermaine Murray:Because you're trying to, you're trying to, you're trying to bypass the censorship and everything.
Jermaine Murray:And then, then people started putting uploading music to YouTube and like YouTube tried to be like this whole media conglomerate and like, it has like some different levels of success with that.
Jermaine Murray:But like, you always gotta like, understand what you're like, your actual like, niche and what your footing is to really like build off of that.
Jermaine Murray:And some things work, some things don't.
Jermaine Murray:But yeah, we're in that little gray space right now with, with, with AI where it's just like trying to figure out what works and what doesn't and what captures the mainstream attention.
Kelly Kennedy:Totally, totally.
Kelly Kennedy:And, and it really is trial and error.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, I have people ask me all the time, like, what are you using?
Kelly Kennedy:And I'm like, well, just because it works for me doesn't mean it works for you.
Kelly Kennedy:But this is what I'm using.
Kelly Kennedy:But try your own things, right?
Kelly Kennedy:Because I don't know, it's like, one thing that works well for somebody is not going to work well for somebody else.
Kelly Kennedy:So it's like, you really do have to trial it.
Kelly Kennedy:And.
Kelly Kennedy:And, you know, I would say always evaluate, because, you know, some of these programs, eventually one of them is going to get it right.
Kelly Kennedy:And the thing that works, it'll do multiple things well.
Kelly Kennedy:And when that happens, it'll be a great value.
Kelly Kennedy:But we're definitely not there yet.
Kelly Kennedy:I know.
Kelly Kennedy:Like I said, with podcasting, I'm probably using, like, four or five different types of AIs to create my show and do everything I need to do, because none of them do everything well.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, exactly.
Kelly Kennedy:But we live in a weird time, right?
Kelly Kennedy:Like, that's kind of where we're at as entrepreneurs, is that we're navigating.
Kelly Kennedy:We're navigating technology and a time that, frankly, we should be thankful because I think there's so many great things about being an entrepreneur right now.
Kelly Kennedy:But understand that we're all also charting new territory.
Kelly Kennedy:And you have to be careful, but you also have to be willing to take a risk.
Jermaine Murray:I agree.
Jermaine Murray:I think that is.
Jermaine Murray:That's the essence of entrepreneurship, right?
Jermaine Murray:I worked at, like, shortly, in.
Jermaine Murray:Before and in the pandemic, I worked for a incubator in Montreal, and I moved from Toronto to Montreal for this job.
Jermaine Murray:And I didn't know anybody in Montreal, had never been to Montreal, but I was like, hey, yo, you know, hustlers all the time entrepreneur.
Kelly Kennedy:You know, you just.
Jermaine Murray:You just.
Jermaine Murray:You just, like, if you.
Jermaine Murray:If you dip a toe in, you're not going to really experience it.
Jermaine Murray:It's just.
Jermaine Murray:Just throw the whole.
Jermaine Murray:Just throw your whole self into it.
Jermaine Murray:And I.
Jermaine Murray:I was surprised at, like, how haphazard the process of entrepreneurship was.
Jermaine Murray:And, like, despite the fact I was working with people like PhDs and whatnot, I was like, despite the fact that these.
Jermaine Murray:These.
Jermaine Murray:These people have PhDs, nobody knows what the hell they're actually doing.
Jermaine Murray:Like, they had an idea.
Jermaine Murray:They.
Jermaine Murray:They worked on the idea, and they got as far as they could with that initial thought, and they're like, all right, now what?
Jermaine Murray:And it's like, every day is a new.
Jermaine Murray:Is a new way to, like, answer that now what question?
Jermaine Murray:Until that new answer, that new problem comes up that you're like, I got some direction.
Jermaine Murray:I could work towards that.
Jermaine Murray:I could work towards solving that.
Jermaine Murray:And then when I get there, I'm going to be stuck with that damn question again.
Jermaine Murray:Now what?
Jermaine Murray:Right?
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:Well, I find, like, on my entrepreneurial journey, nothing has turned out exactly how I planned it, like, zero.
Kelly Kennedy:But amazing things have happened that I never saw coming, like this show, right?
Kelly Kennedy:Like, I wasn't even remotely thinking about doing a podcast when I started Capital Business Development.
Kelly Kennedy:But then the opportunity came along, and I took it, and thank God I did, because it's been so much fun.
Kelly Kennedy:I get to meet amazing people.
Kelly Kennedy:I get to do so much with it.
Kelly Kennedy:But the way that I see it, as an entrepreneur, you never see the future.
Kelly Kennedy:You can plan, and you can have all the plans in the world, but life is going to throw at you what life is going to throw at you.
Kelly Kennedy:So I think what's more important than having this perfect plan that you're going to follow to a table is being open and available when that inevitably great opportunity falls on your lap, because that's more likely to happen than your plan going exactly to plan.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, I agree.
Jermaine Murray:It's like being prepared, developing your skills through trial and error.
Jermaine Murray:Right?
Jermaine Murray:And then recognizing when that opportunity to strike comes.
Jermaine Murray:Right.
Jermaine Murray:And not missing your moment.
Jermaine Murray:And sometimes part of your learning process is missing your moment, but it is super unpredictable.
Jermaine Murray:Like, my mom always had this saying.
Jermaine Murray:She's like, if you ever want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
Jermaine Murray:And, like, I literally feel like that is.
Jermaine Murray:That is like entrepreneurship.
Jermaine Murray:Sometimes.
Jermaine Murray:Sometimes I think, like, my superpower is too late.
Jermaine Murray:Like, I always feel like I'm too late for things.
Jermaine Murray:And, like, I don't.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, I don't move on, like, my own time.
Jermaine Murray:And it's like, there are a lot of things where I.
Jermaine Murray:I feel like I saw it coming, but I didn't act on it.
Jermaine Murray:And then I like.
Jermaine Murray:And then I have to have the conversation of whether or not it's worth putting energy into it.
Jermaine Murray:And then I realized, like, I feel like I'm too late, but, like, it used to be something that I would use as an indictment against myself, but I think it's become more of, like, a superpower because I realized that, like, that's my own process.
Jermaine Murray:That's my learning process.
Jermaine Murray:My learning process is.
Jermaine Murray:I think what I really like about entrepreneurship is that my learning process, it feels represented here where, like, I was never, like, that quick, like, prodigy kid.
Jermaine Murray:I wish I was where, you know, you know, you know, some people that, like, they pick up something and they're great at it for once.
Jermaine Murray:And it's like, nah, I'm the slow learner in the back of the class that has to stay back after class and do the extra work.
Jermaine Murray:And like, you don't see the work, but one day, like out of nowhere, you're like, yo, when did you get so good?
Jermaine Murray:And I'm like, yo, yeah, you know what I'm saying?
Jermaine Murray:That's just, that's how I've been.
Jermaine Murray:But like, really, if you had like a little montage, it's like hours and hours and hours of just failure compounding until I found a way to learn from the failures and then, you know, spring up and turn those into successes until the success turns into a failure again.
Jermaine Murray:And I'm back at that learning process.
Jermaine Murray:But it's not, it's not failure.
Jermaine Murray:It's.
Jermaine Murray:It's all a learning process thing, right?
Kelly Kennedy:Totally, Totally.
Kelly Kennedy:And I look back at like, my like, school experience and I wasn't a good student, dude.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, I, I was there to have fun.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, it's funny because I look back now and I was a pretty crappy student.
Kelly Kennedy:But I've been an amazing worker and entrepreneur.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, when it was my self motivation, when it was my business, my baby, my, my word on the line, right then it was like, okay, I'm in.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, that's what I needed.
Kelly Kennedy:I needed that pressure.
Kelly Kennedy:I needed it to be my win.
Kelly Kennedy:And when it was my win, I could give my all to it.
Kelly Kennedy:But like, yeah, I was not good at school neither.
Jermaine Murray:Neither was I.
Jermaine Murray:I think the most annoying thing was a parent.
Jermaine Murray:Teacher interviews and my parents, My teacher's always going to my mom.
Jermaine Murray:He has so much potential if he just like, focused and then trying to explain to a Jamaican woman, Jamaican mother, that you're, that you find school boring is a, is, is, is an uphill battle.
Jermaine Murray:It's like, it's literally ice skating uphill, right?
Jermaine Murray:You, you, you cannot win.
Jermaine Murray:Especially if she sees that you're into something.
Jermaine Murray:Like, my mom used to get on my.
Jermaine Murray:I love video games, right?
Jermaine Murray:You know, my mom used to get on my case.
Jermaine Murray:She'd be like, if you knew your books the same way you knew your combos, you'd be a genius.
Jermaine Murray:And it's just, it's like, yo, that's like, that's not how that works.
Jermaine Murray:Like, like, I wish I could, but, like, that shit's boring.
Jermaine Murray:And you know, I come to realize that, like, I think for a lot of entrepreneurs, for like a lot of successful ones.
Jermaine Murray:So, like, when I was at that incubator.
Jermaine Murray:I realized the thing that, the thing about that specific incubator that kind of like opened my eyes about like entrepreneurship was that there are the bad entrepreneurs are the ones that, the ones that, the entrepreneurs that don't succeed are the ones that get into it for money.
Jermaine Murray:And the entrepreneurs that succeed and be and go on to be great are people that saw a problem and either they became so obsessed with the problem that they had to do something about it, or they saw a solution and they believed within their heart of hearts that this was the solution to solve that problem and they wouldn't give up on it.
Jermaine Murray:And I feel like that's, that in its essence what really makes an entrepreneur like you, you see that, you see that problem and you want to solve it, become solution oriented.
Jermaine Murray:And you, you, it's almost like a North Star, like a guiding light, because you never get lost.
Jermaine Murray:Because as long as that problem, as long as you can focus in on that problem, you can build the solutions around it.
Jermaine Murray:And what solutions work you keep and what, what don't you throw to the wayside.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah, yeah, no kidding.
Kelly Kennedy:And like, dude, you were so young when you started Jupiter hr.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, first off, congratulations.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, I wish that I was as driven and motivated as you at that age.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, like, what is it?
Kelly Kennedy:It's almost 10 years at this point since you launched Jupiter, right?
Kelly Kennedy:2015.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:So you were, you were 23.
Jermaine Murray:25.
Kelly Kennedy:25, sorry.
Kelly Kennedy:25, yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:So that's just like absolutely bonkers, man.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, I didn't start capital until I was 30.
Kelly Kennedy:I think, I think I incorporated it like my 30th birthday.
Kelly Kennedy:And I was like, hey.
Kelly Kennedy:But like, the funny thing was, is like, I wasn't prepared, I can tell you right now, I was not prepared to be an entrepreneur until 30.
Kelly Kennedy:And even then I'm not sure that I was completely prepared.
Kelly Kennedy:I had, I had some hard lessons and some life learning to do at that point.
Kelly Kennedy:Right.
Kelly Kennedy:And it's like, I just see people like you who are so successful and first off, like, congratulations on your success.
Kelly Kennedy:Congratulations on Jupiter.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, you've accomplished so much Forbes.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, you've done so, so much for your age.
Kelly Kennedy:And yeah, man, I just like, I, I, I very, I, I very much admire entrepreneurs like yourself who, who have done so much and frankly still have so much to do.
Jermaine Murray:I, man, I appreciate that.
Jermaine Murray:I promise you though, it, it did not feel or it was not never, it wasn't that way.
Jermaine Murray:Like, even the way that the business started was like an accident to Be real with you.
Jermaine Murray:Like, I went to school for radio broadcasting.
Jermaine Murray:I, ironically, as I say this to God on the podcast, and I, I was like, when I graduated, I legitimately thought I was gonna be the black Larry King.
Jermaine Murray:Like, that's, you know, I want.
Jermaine Murray:At first, I wanted to be an actor.
Jermaine Murray:My mom was like, I'm.
Jermaine Murray:My mom and dad were like, weird.
Jermaine Murray:Not.
Jermaine Murray:We are not paying thousands of dollars for you to go to school to be an actor.
Jermaine Murray:You, you, you can go for something else.
Jermaine Murray:You can do acting on the side, right?
Jermaine Murray:But, like, no.
Jermaine Murray:So, like, I thought, like, all right, you know, I'll become famous like Larry King, and then I'll just be able to, like, transition over to acting.
Jermaine Murray:And I graduated and I had the hardest time getting a job.
Jermaine Murray:And I remember I had about 750, maybe $800 in my bank account, and I went to a resume writer in Scarborough, and I had about six months of internship experiences at a rate at radio stations.
Jermaine Murray:And I paid this person $694.54.
Jermaine Murray:Not that I'm counting, but hey, to do the, to do the resume.
Jermaine Murray:And they gave me a six page resume.
Jermaine Murray:And like, you have to understand how desperate I was for a job at this point.
Jermaine Murray:I, I tried everything.
Jermaine Murray:I was exhausted.
Jermaine Murray:So they handed me a six page resume.
Jermaine Murray:I'm like, all right, this is cool.
Jermaine Murray:And I got in my car, and if anyone's from Toronto is listening, the.
Jermaine Murray:The resume writer was at Markham and Ellesmere, and down the street at Markham and 401 was the TSN CTV building.
Jermaine Murray:It's still there.
Jermaine Murray:So I drove straight to there and.
Jermaine Murray:Because, like, my dad was like, hey, you're applying online.
Jermaine Murray:You know, back in my day, I would have just walked in and just handed them the resume.
Jermaine Murray:That's.
Jermaine Murray:That's.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, that's what you want to do if you want to get shit done, right?
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah.
Jermaine Murray:So, like, at a certain point, things aren't working.
Jermaine Murray:So I was like, all right, what got to lose?
Jermaine Murray:So I drove to.
Jermaine Murray:To tsn.
Jermaine Murray:I walk in and the receptionist was a nice Jamaican black lady.
Jermaine Murray:And she asked, she's like, how can I help you?
Jermaine Murray:And I just put my resume down and I remember it made like a clunk sound on the desk.
Jermaine Murray:It was six pages.
Jermaine Murray:And I was like, I'm here for a job.
Jermaine Murray:And she's like, what job?
Jermaine Murray:I was like, I don't know, but here's my resume.
Jermaine Murray:And then she.
Jermaine Murray:I remember she.
Jermaine Murray:She took the resume up and she like flipped through it, and then she was like, if you Had a hundred thousand things to do and someone came into your office and not only had no idea what jobs you had available, but gave you a mini book to read.
Jermaine Murray:Would you want to read that?
Jermaine Murray:And I was just there, dumbfounded, right?
Jermaine Murray:And in my head, my head is like, say yes, just say yes.
Jermaine Murray:And my heart was like, nah.
Jermaine Murray:And I was like, no.
Jermaine Murray:And then she's like, all right, here you go.
Jermaine Murray:And I sat in my car and I was like, would I want to read this?
Jermaine Murray:And I'm like, no, it's six, six freaking pages.
Jermaine Murray:Like I wouldn't want to read this.
Jermaine Murray:So that day I went and I like studied up on everything I could when it came to like making a good resume.
Jermaine Murray:And I focused on if I focus on like an empathetic journey.
Jermaine Murray:I was like, if I was the person sitting across from me, what would I need to see on this piece of paper that would entice me to read it but also be like, hey, Jermaine is exactly who I want for this job.
Jermaine Murray:And then I wrote my first resume, my first real resume myself from that aspect and I submitted that and I started getting calls to like jobs.
Jermaine Murray:And it became like a running joke where I'd be chilling with my friends and like we would actually start betting.
Jermaine Murray:We'd like, we'd open up indeed on my PlayStation 3 with like the web browser and we start making bets on whether or not I would get a call back based on my resume for this job.
Jermaine Murray:And more often than not I was getting callbacks on the resume.
Jermaine Murray:And then so my friends were like, yo, make us resumes, get us jobs.
Jermaine Murray:Made them resumes.
Jermaine Murray:They all got their grown up jobs from that, from those resumes.
Jermaine Murray:And then it started being like, people started coming out to me asking me to make the resumes.
Jermaine Murray:And that's kind of like how Jupiter HR was born.
Jermaine Murray:But like it was still, it was still like a part time thing.
Jermaine Murray:I really wasn't paying too much attention.
Jermaine Murray:It was just good for like side money, for gas money as my dad would would used to say.
Jermaine Murray: uitment probably like in like: Jermaine Murray:And it became a thing where I use the experience there from resume writing and interview prepping to get my first recruitment job.
Jermaine Murray:And then in my, as a recruiter I, I noticed that people that look like me weren't getting opportunities.
Jermaine Murray:And so I started advocating for people that look like me.
Jermaine Murray:And then I started getting in trouble at work because yeah, I had, I've had so many managers.
Jermaine Murray:My, the first One that stood out to me, though, was, like, I had a manager.
Jermaine Murray:I was working at an agency, and a manager, literally, we would have these morning meetings, and she would want to know the candidates that we were putting forward for jobs to send to the.
Jermaine Murray:To our clients.
Jermaine Murray:And I put this person through who I met at a networking event, and I had, like, a WhatsApp group with black people.
Jermaine Murray:And we're like, I'm, like, sharing the jobs, and that's how I got most of my candidates.
Jermaine Murray:And I'm, Yeah, pretty successful.
Jermaine Murray:Like, it was.
Jermaine Murray: It was January: Jermaine Murray:And so, like, recruiters are basically judged on the revenue that they bring.
Jermaine Murray:And, like, a good year for a recruiter is to bring, like, 150, $160,000 throughout the whole entire year.
Jermaine Murray:And in January alone, I grossed, like, $260,000.
Jermaine Murray:Right, just by throwing black candidates.
Jermaine Murray:So I put this black candidate, and it was a person with a Nigerian name.
Jermaine Murray:And so, like, I remember my manager being upset.
Jermaine Murray:She put the.
Jermaine Murray:Put the paper down, and she took me into the cafeteria, into the lunchroom, asked everybody to leave, and it was just me and her.
Jermaine Murray:And she was just like, you can't be the only black recruiter on the team, and the only people you're putting forward are black people.
Jermaine Murray:And then I flipped, and I was like, you need to ask why the only black candidates you're seeing are coming from the black guy.
Jermaine Murray:And then she looked at me, and I was like, yo, like, you can't overrepresent for an underrepresented group.
Jermaine Murray:And then I got written up.
Jermaine Murray:I was just like, all right, it's time to leave this job.
Jermaine Murray:And I left.
Jermaine Murray:I left.
Jermaine Murray:I went to another employer, tried the same thing, kept getting into the.
Jermaine Murray:Into the same.
Jermaine Murray:Into the same drama.
Jermaine Murray:So I realized that I could just do my advocacy through Jupiter hr.
Jermaine Murray:And, you know, if I.
Jermaine Murray:If it's totally disconnected, they can't get mad at me.
Jermaine Murray:And if it so happens that, like, it also enables me to be better at my job, they.
Jermaine Murray:They can't get mad at me.
Jermaine Murray:So it was.
Jermaine Murray:It started out as just a way for me to, like, address a problem that, like, was just, quite frankly, pissing me off.
Jermaine Murray:Right?
Jermaine Murray:It was just.
Jermaine Murray:It was just so annoying not seeing people that look like me for, like, for opportunities that were, like, literally life changing.
Jermaine Murray:And eventually it grew to, like.
Jermaine Murray:It grew to.
Jermaine Murray:I started taking to social media, and my whole idea was like, I'm just gonna make the whole job search thing as transparent as possible.
Jermaine Murray:One of the first threads that I made that went viral was a dissection of like LinkedIn showing people what LinkedIn look like from the recruiter's point of view and how they could optimize their profiles to attract more recruiters.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah.
Jermaine Murray:And things kind of just took off from there and eventually that job I had in Montreal at that incubator, Jupiter, HR was taking up more time than my full time job and I started getting trouble at the full time job.
Jermaine Murray:Right.
Jermaine Murray:Because like my, I was so distracted.
Jermaine Murray:And it eventually grew to be like its own thing to where I was able to just do it full time.
Jermaine Murray:And like, yeah, it was, it was a vehicle for me to like, address a problem that, like.
Jermaine Murray:Because, like, I don't know, it's like sometimes it's like, what do you do, what do you do when there's, what do you do when there's a problem and there's nothing that you can do?
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, you just do what you can.
Jermaine Murray:Right.
Jermaine Murray:And that was my way of doing what I could.
Kelly Kennedy:Wow.
Kelly Kennedy:Wow, man.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, I've experienced some pretty interesting things in my, in my time in business development as well.
Kelly Kennedy:I've.
Kelly Kennedy:I've actually, I was in a meeting once with a pipeline company and I worked for a company that, that hired quite a few East Indian people.
Kelly Kennedy:Obviously we're in Canada.
Kelly Kennedy:It's a very diverse place, right?
Kelly Kennedy:Like, very diverse.
Kelly Kennedy:And I remember being in a meeting one time and saying, like, hey, like, would you guys consider, you know, our company, our employees?
Kelly Kennedy:And the guy pulled me into a room, shut the door, and he said, under no circumstances will we hire any East Indians from your company.
Kelly Kennedy:He's like, obviously, I will never say this, I will never say this in public.
Kelly Kennedy:But they won't.
Kelly Kennedy:This is, this was the guy's words.
Kelly Kennedy:They won't fit in here.
Kelly Kennedy:And I was like, are you kidding me?
Kelly Kennedy:Like, where do you think you live?
Kelly Kennedy:But it's like, I think there's a lot of people who think that, you know, that Canada is completely equal, that, you know, like, we've got it all figured out and that's just not the case.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, it's.
Jermaine Murray:I've had clients say to me, hey, can you, can you give us candidates without any funny names?
Jermaine Murray:And it's just like, what does that mean?
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, what does that mean?
Jermaine Murray:Like, you know what I'm saying?
Jermaine Murray:Like, what is, what do you mean by that?
Jermaine Murray:What do you, what do you mean by that?
Jermaine Murray:But like, yeah, yeah, it's.
Jermaine Murray:I think it's just the reality of people and like, you get, you have some really, like, good people, right?
Jermaine Murray:That don't see color, that don't see race, or just like, even if they do, they understand the.
Jermaine Murray:The context behind privileges and context behind underrepresentation, and they try their best to be allies.
Jermaine Murray:And then you got people that, you know, the thing is, no one sees itself as a bad guy.
Jermaine Murray:So ironically, I think that person that pulled you aside, they, like, in some strange case, they might.
Jermaine Murray:In some strange way, they might have thought that they're.
Jermaine Murray:They're protecting people.
Jermaine Murray:Right.
Jermaine Murray:But they don't realize that they're, like, they're, you know, entertaining evil or they're entertaining, like, discrimination.
Jermaine Murray:Because nobody, anyone that, like, there's only been like, a few times in my life where I've ever seen someone proud, like, proudly say that they're a racist.
Jermaine Murray:And everyone that has done, like, racist things, like, like, if they don't, they don't.
Jermaine Murray:Like, they, even though they did it, if you painted it in a way where they saw the discrimination, they kind of would feel away about themselves.
Jermaine Murray:Right.
Jermaine Murray:They might regress to the norm shortly after.
Jermaine Murray:But, like, you know, no one wants to be, like, outright the bad guy.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah, I was shocked, like, and, you know, like, I'd never.
Kelly Kennedy:For me.
Kelly Kennedy:And I'd never experienced that before.
Kelly Kennedy:That was my first, like, real experience of racism.
Kelly Kennedy:Outwards.
Kelly Kennedy:Outward racism.
Kelly Kennedy:And it was like, it was very surprising.
Kelly Kennedy:And I know, like, I live in Alberta, like, it's oil and gas country, but I'd never had somebody pull me aside and straight up tell me, I will not.
Kelly Kennedy:We will not hire your people, you know, because of their name or because of their.
Kelly Kennedy:It was very surprising.
Kelly Kennedy:And.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:And, you know, like, obviously, like, I'm a white guy.
Kelly Kennedy:It's not something that I can even understand.
Kelly Kennedy:And so I think we have to come to the table recognizing that we don't understand.
Kelly Kennedy:And we have to.
Kelly Kennedy:We have to, because we don't understand.
Kelly Kennedy:We have to be willing to have that conversation and to realize that there may be a bias there.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah.
Jermaine Murray:And I think that's the first step of the allyship too, though.
Jermaine Murray:It's like, even.
Jermaine Murray:Not even just from like, a race standpoint too, but from like, a gender standpoint as, like, two men.
Jermaine Murray:Right.
Jermaine Murray:And I'm.
Jermaine Murray:I'm a heterosexual male.
Jermaine Murray:And like, even then I have privilege because, like, a lot of people that are, like, identify as otherwise are discriminated against.
Jermaine Murray:And like, you know, it's.
Jermaine Murray:That's when you have to, like, use the space that you occupy to advocate for others.
Jermaine Murray:Because at the end of the day, like, we're all, we're all people.
Jermaine Murray:And like, the people a lot of, like, unfortunately, like, a lot of people that are, that have power wield it in ways that are detrimental to us as like, a society.
Jermaine Murray:So, like, you know, it's, it's times like that where you have to, like, kind of lean into what you can do.
Jermaine Murray:And like I said, like, you can't solve everything, but if you can't let something go on, you got to do what you can do.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:And like, I wonder how much of it, how much of it people don't even realize that it, like, that it's happening in their organizations, right?
Kelly Kennedy:Like, talking to, like, CEOs that have, you know, a whole bunch of people working for them.
Kelly Kennedy:How can they implement strategies that make sure that that bias isn't happening?
Kelly Kennedy:Like in your.
Kelly Kennedy:Obviously, obviously you could hire from Jupiter hr, right?
Kelly Kennedy:Like, that could be one of the avenues that you take.
Kelly Kennedy:But, like, how can we, how can we do better with regards to systemic racism within corporations, in your opinion?
Kelly Kennedy:Jermaine?
Jermaine Murray:I think it, think it, it comes down to, like, buy in from leadership, but, like, genuine buy in.
Jermaine Murray:So, like, prior to settling on, like, going to, like, school for broadcasting, I considered going into law and I took a couple of law courses.
Jermaine Murray:And one of the things, for one of the things that always stood out to me was a term mens rea and actus rea, the guilty act and the guilty mind, right?
Jermaine Murray:The difference between murder one and manslaughter, right?
Jermaine Murray:You could hit somebody with your car, and if it's an accident, it's manslaughter because it's a, it's a guilty act.
Jermaine Murray:But if you sit and you premeditate to kill somebody and you do it, it's a guilty act plus a guilty mind.
Jermaine Murray:And if you get caught planning it, it's a guilty mind lacking the guilty act, right?
Jermaine Murray:So it comes down to, like, when leadership do their buy in.
Jermaine Murray:And this is kind of like controversy that happened during the George Floyd situation where you had a bunch of companies, like, putting together these initiatives to support black people.
Jermaine Murray:But, like, they weren't doing it because they realized they had an unconscious bias.
Jermaine Murray:So they weren't doing it because, like, they realized that, like, you know, there is, like, a guilty mind at play here.
Jermaine Murray:They did it because they were copycatting the people that were doing it, and they realized that it was a smart business move to do.
Jermaine Murray:And that's why a lot of the programs have evaporated as like DEI has become less and less of, like, a hot topic.
Jermaine Murray:Or a topic that really, like, moves and inspires people.
Jermaine Murray:So it comes from leader, comes from buying from leadership, but not because they're willing to do the.
Jermaine Murray:Not because they're willing to sanction or like, you know, you know, advance the actions, but because they genuinely have.
Jermaine Murray:They genuinely have an understanding of the limitations that happens when you don't invest in such programs and like, the morale you're destroying among your employees when you don't, when you don't stand up, when you don't say things, when you don't, you know, make an effort to show that you are in that space of allyship.
Jermaine Murray:Those, when those things, when that, when that mind aspect isn't there, those positive actions that happening that you do, they have a short.
Jermaine Murray:They have a short lifespan.
Jermaine Murray:They have a short shelf life.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:Well, you know, we're both in Canada, and one of the things that I've seen really change in the last, like, let's call it five years is indigenous relations.
Kelly Kennedy:So you're seeing, like, a very consorted effort from companies, from governments to make sure that more indigenous groups are, Are, are being included, that they're being represented, that they're getting their fair deal with regards to their, their allyship with corporations.
Kelly Kennedy:Right.
Kelly Kennedy:But I don't know, like, is it kind of feels like we've picked one minority and said, like, okay, we're good.
Jermaine Murray:We'll.
Kelly Kennedy:We'll help them.
Kelly Kennedy:But, like, is it.
Kelly Kennedy:Does it seem reasonable to help one minority and, and not do the same thing for the rest?
Jermaine Murray:I think things have to happen in stages, to be honest with you.
Jermaine Murray:And like, I'm not, I'm not an expert and I'm not from the indigenous community.
Jermaine Murray:But, like, even then I've always felt like, I like that there's a starting point, but I don't think it's actually enough because, like, I always had a problem with land acknowledgments because I'd be like, why don't you just, you know, just give the people back their land if that's the case?
Jermaine Murray:You know, like, is.
Jermaine Murray:Is the same way as like a black person, wherein, like, companies acknowledge the part they played in, like, slavery, and then they turn around and try to say, like, yeah, but we're not going to do.
Jermaine Murray:We don't agree with reparations.
Jermaine Murray:It's just like, you know, to quote George R.R.
Jermaine Murray:martin from, like, you know, Game of Thrones, words are a wind.
Jermaine Murray:You know what I'm saying?
Jermaine Murray:Like, where's the actual action behind that?
Jermaine Murray:So, like.
Jermaine Murray:But everything has a Starting point.
Jermaine Murray:Everything should happen in phases, as I say.
Jermaine Murray:So, like, I would be like, I think the reality of just people is that it's always easier to focus on, like, one thing.
Jermaine Murray:Like, we do have the capacity to focus on a lot of different things, but like, yeah, even like as entrepreneurs, you find that, like, people that are able to do a lot of different things, they tend to, like there's an African proverb, you know, if you, if you want to go fast, go alone, if you want to go far, go together.
Jermaine Murray:And basically I equate that is just like you, like, if you don't have like a, a single focus in mind, you, you can't gain any real momentum to like, speed through and then you add people to the puzzle because if you try to address everything all at once, you're not going to get far, you're not going to be effective.
Jermaine Murray:Right.
Jermaine Murray:So if the, if the mindset or if the shift is like, we focus on doing right by one community and when we get to a point where like, you know, things have.
Jermaine Murray:Healing is well underway and like, things are a bit more right, and then we shift the focus and we take what we learn and that's kind of supporting that infrastructure and apply it to others and we keep going down the list, then like, yeah, I think, I think that would be a much better approach.
Jermaine Murray:But in a lot of cases it just feels like we're doing like the spread aspect and it's just a lot of platitudes and words and the real action is like light behind them.
Jermaine Murray:And again, that goes back to being like people within leadership and people having the opportunity, not understanding or not like doing the work to make that connection mentally.
Jermaine Murray:Right.
Jermaine Murray:But they see that there is some sort of value in doing the execution.
Jermaine Murray:But, like, that can only take you so far if you don't have the total buy in.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah, yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:Well.
Kelly Kennedy:And you know, like, one of the reasons that I really wanted to talk to you today is that I haven't had this conversation.
Kelly Kennedy:I haven't had anybody have this conversation on this show.
Kelly Kennedy:And for somebody like you to start a company like Jupiter HR and have a nice ambitious goal and you've got to be real close to placing your 500.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah.
Jermaine Murray:414.
Kelly Kennedy:Oh, my God.
Kelly Kennedy:Wow.
Kelly Kennedy:Okay, so, like, maybe this show, maybe this show's the one that gets you maybe, hopefully.
Kelly Kennedy:But like, frankly, like, that's still not enough.
Kelly Kennedy:Like 500 people doesn't seem like that much like we need to place like 5,000 people, you know, like, yeah, it seems like a Drop in the bucket.
Kelly Kennedy:But yet I've, like I said, I don't think I've ever seen a company like yours that says, you know what?
Kelly Kennedy:No, like, there's a problem here and we're going to do something about it.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, have you come across many companies like yours?
Jermaine Murray:I wouldn't say many, but I do know that there's all.
Jermaine Murray:There is a lot of people in the space that are doing really good work.
Jermaine Murray:And like, I think, like, for me, like, I have, because I have that sales background, like, I have, I have like quotas like bred into me.
Jermaine Murray:And like, if I don't have, like, like again, if I don't have something to focus on, it's it, There can be a lot of like, wasted energy.
Jermaine Murray:So like, we, we're vocal with that quota, we're vocal with that number as a way to just keep us honest and on the path.
Jermaine Murray:But like, like, and a lot, like, a lot of companies don't like, really like, focus on like numbers like that.
Jermaine Murray:But like, that is, again, like, as an entrepreneur, that is what intrinsically, like, works to keep the train going.
Jermaine Murray:Right?
Jermaine Murray:But there are a lot of, there are some companies in the space that are doing some really good work.
Jermaine Murray:There are a lot of really good leaders.
Jermaine Murray:And like, I don't think that they're enough, to be honest, because it is a lot of work and it is a lot of history that we are working against and working to correct.
Jermaine Murray:But like, I'm, I'm glad that I'm not the only person in the space that's doing this kind of work.
Jermaine Murray:Especially because, like, like you said, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a big, it's a big number, but it's not a big number at the same time, you know what I'm saying?
Jermaine Murray:Because, like, if you.
Jermaine Murray: I remember like in: Jermaine Murray:We did 126.
Jermaine Murray:And like, to get to that 126, I had to work with over 2, 000 black people.
Kelly Kennedy:Holy cow.
Jermaine Murray:You know what I'm saying?
Jermaine Murray:So like, that's like, that's why I agree with you.
Jermaine Murray:It's not like, it's not really that big of a number because, like, it's a fraction of like the total engagements and total people that I know.
Jermaine Murray:And you know what I'm saying?
Jermaine Murray:Like, to get to do two, to do something 2, 000 times and only walk away with like 126, like wins, you know?
Jermaine Murray: all player and somebody goes,: Jermaine Murray:Like, you know, say like, my gosh.
Kelly Kennedy:That is what is, like, what is the statistic for white people?
Kelly Kennedy:Do you know?
Kelly Kennedy:Do you know what?
Kelly Kennedy:Like, if it would have been the same amount, what do you think it would have been?
Kelly Kennedy:And I get that that's like, speculating.
Jermaine Murray:But, yeah, so, like, I read this report, so the thing that actually, like, really, I want to say, quote, unquote, in a joking way radicalized me, was reading this report from tmu, which was formerly known as Ryerson University, called who are Tax Workers?
Jermaine Murray:And in it they detailed that, like, 70% of tech roles were taken up by, like, white people and 30% were by people that were minorities.
Jermaine Murray:And then it went to, like, further break down that, like, what that minority representation looked like.
Jermaine Murray:And like, black people.
Jermaine Murray:In Canada, we represented like, I think 12 or 13% of the population, but we only represented 3.9% of the tech industry.
Jermaine Murray:And of that, we were also the lowest paid ethnic group as well.
Jermaine Murray:And it attributed a lot of systemic factors, right?
Jermaine Murray:It.
Jermaine Murray:It's attributed and it also referenced to the burden of low expectations where, like, people have a perception of people of, like, black people.
Jermaine Murray:And, like, it's easier for somebody to believe a black person is a janitor versus a doctor.
Jermaine Murray:And like, that bleeds into, like, salary negotiations and what kind of offers black people are able to get and what opportunities are able to extend to them.
Jermaine Murray:And that's what made me think about that manager I had that got upset that I was, you know, sending so many black people because it's just like, you know, it's an unconscious bias.
Jermaine Murray:So, like, I think, I don't know, it's, it's, it's.
Jermaine Murray:I think it would be a number that'd be 70% more just based on, like, what they sound like, that ratio.
Jermaine Murray:But hey, I'm an English major.
Jermaine Murray:I am not a math major.
Jermaine Murray:So, yeah, my math may be completely off, but it's just me spitballing.
Jermaine Murray:But like, you know, if, if the industry had like, 70, it's probably a bit lower now, but like, if, if it was 70 white and only like 3.9 black, I would think that the numbers would be, like, represented.
Jermaine Murray: and I divide that by: Jermaine Murray:Zero point.
Jermaine Murray:It's 6, 6.3%, right?
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah.
Jermaine Murray:So, like, so like, even then, Scott.
Kelly Kennedy:You'Re double the standard.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, sure, great.
Jermaine Murray:But like.
Kelly Kennedy:Pretty low.
Jermaine Murray:So I would say, I would say it'd be considerably more, but like, I'm still super proud of the work that I've been able to do that we've been able to do.
Jermaine Murray:And like, I think that, you know, right now things are a bit more politicized and like anti dei, but I think that, like, as, again, as an entrepreneur, I see a problem and I'm trying to make a solution to address the problem.
Jermaine Murray:The bigger the problem, the bigger the solution.
Jermaine Murray:But the bigger the solution, the more people I end up helping, you know?
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah, yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:Well, like, at the end of the day, we're all here to do.
Kelly Kennedy:Do a job, to do something that frankly, is going to benefit society as a whole.
Kelly Kennedy:And it should be about who is the most qualified person, period.
Jermaine Murray:Agreed.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:And business, like, I don't get it because, you know, when I started capital, it's like business needs to be neutral, period.
Jermaine Murray:Right.
Kelly Kennedy:It just does.
Kelly Kennedy:Like, at the end of the day, business should benefit everybody involved.
Kelly Kennedy:The buyers, the sellers, the workers, the employers.
Kelly Kennedy:Everybody should benefit from business.
Kelly Kennedy:And we need to.
Kelly Kennedy:We all need to aim to be more neutral when it comes to how we operate our organizations, period.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah.
Jermaine Murray:I would say, I would say to that, though, that I've never agreed with the phrase.
Jermaine Murray:It's, you know, whenever you see, like, I'm gonna reference pirates of the Caribbean 3 where the, where the main antagonist is like, it's not.
Jermaine Murray:It's not personal, it's business.
Jermaine Murray:And in my.
Jermaine Murray:I remember I was watching that with my dad and my dad was like, that makes no sense because, like, like, if I can't feed myself or my kids, like, it's because it's personal.
Jermaine Murray:Like, it's.
Jermaine Murray:That's pretty personal.
Jermaine Murray:So it's like, you know, with business and one thing I learned about, like, entrepreneurship, especially working in like the VC space, I'm surprised.
Jermaine Murray:I was surprised at how many deals get done over coffees, over beer, over social settings.
Jermaine Murray:Like, I've heard of deals getting.
Jermaine Murray:I've heard of people getting.
Jermaine Murray:I heard about a guy getting funding because he spotted an investor in a.
Jermaine Murray:In a gym before a bench press.
Jermaine Murray:You know what I'm saying?
Jermaine Murray:And it's like, yeah, it's like that social aspect of business where people, People, unless they absolutely have to, people will always choose to do business with somebody that they like.
Kelly Kennedy:Yes.
Jermaine Murray:Right.
Jermaine Murray:And like, even though, like you said, it should be neutral, it should be.
Jermaine Murray:It should benefit both parties.
Jermaine Murray:The end of the day, that emotional aspect Of I, only if I, if I have the choice, I will do business with people that I like.
Jermaine Murray:Like that is, that is both, that is a double edged sword.
Jermaine Murray:It works and it works for us and it works against us.
Jermaine Murray:But like that is essentially it.
Jermaine Murray:But like another thing that people, I think another thing that I always tell people, especially people that are like anti DEI or like throw the word woke at me, I always say like, you're misconstruing what like DEI and diversity really is because like nobody wants a handout.
Jermaine Murray:Like nobody, like a lot of people in my community would turn down a handout on the strength of you just giving them an opportunity because they're black.
Jermaine Murray:Right?
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah.
Jermaine Murray:What we want is just a fair shot.
Jermaine Murray:That's literally it.
Jermaine Murray:You know what I'm saying?
Jermaine Murray:And like I explained it, I played to a hiring manager once like this.
Jermaine Murray:If on average black people are representative as 4% of the industry, you get a hundred resumes.
Jermaine Murray:The math says that you will have four resumes in that group that are black.
Jermaine Murray:If you know that you only have one job to fill.
Jermaine Murray:Right.
Jermaine Murray:And you might need five to 10 interviews.
Jermaine Murray:Right.
Jermaine Murray:What are the chances that you find 10 people that you want to hire who aren't black before you see your first resume from a black person?
Jermaine Murray:From that four out of a hundred, right?
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah.
Jermaine Murray:So what all DEI is doing is making sure that if you decide to make a call on who to interview, you at least saw the four resumes of the black people and you made, you were able to make a decision like, oh, this isn't the right, this isn't the person that has the skills that we're looking for.
Jermaine Murray:Right.
Jermaine Murray:And then we move on.
Jermaine Murray:And like a lot of time our argument is there are a lot of people in our community that are just as good at that job and if you see their resume, you're going to want to meet them.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah, yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:So walk me, like, walk me into it.
Kelly Kennedy:How, how does Jupiter HR work?
Jermaine Murray:So we have two fronts.
Jermaine Murray:We have the candidate experience front, the job seeker front, and then we have the corporation B2B front.
Jermaine Murray:So the B2C aspect is a advocacy and a career coaching platform.
Jermaine Murray:I leverage my social medias to talk about black issues, to talk about career aspects, career strategies, job seeking strategies, and also as a way to like refer people into jobs.
Jermaine Murray:We do charge for like one on one coaching, like resume writing, but we give a lot of free resources anyway.
Jermaine Murray:So I've always had like, you know, if someone's not able to like afford like the one to One or, like, the paid services we have, we have a free equivalent that they can leverage and they can use as and like to their own benefit.
Jermaine Murray:And then we never charge for referrals.
Jermaine Murray:Right, Referrals into, like, sometimes we have advocates and allies that want to, like, help with the mission and, like, they will leverage their own influence and, like, refer people into their corporation or their organizations, and we never charge for that.
Jermaine Murray:And then on the B2B side, we do direct recruitment placement, but we also offer training and workshops to help train companies on, like, their HR team on how to not only engage and retain black talent, but, like, to actually go out and, like, source and search for that.
Jermaine Murray:So there's, like, no real excuse.
Jermaine Murray:Most recruiters will tell you that the best.
Jermaine Murray:The best and most successful hires come from sourcing activities where you go out and you search for people to poach from jobs that are already working.
Jermaine Murray:And we give them the tools on how to, like, make sure that they're able to incorporate those skills to identify black talent, and they can then go out and find black talent that is qualified for the jobs that they want.
Jermaine Murray:So, again, where no one wants a handout, it's literally just a fair shot.
Jermaine Murray:Right.
Jermaine Murray:And there should be no excuses as to, like, why you're not able to have black people in your talent pipeline.
Kelly Kennedy:Of course, and you're working in Toronto.
Kelly Kennedy:However, like, are you able to service, like, all of Canada, potentially North America?
Kelly Kennedy:What are your service areas?
Jermaine Murray:So we're global.
Jermaine Murray:Be real with you.
Kelly Kennedy:Oh, amazing.
Kelly Kennedy:Well, I know you're in Spain, but.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jermaine Murray:But I've helped people get.
Jermaine Murray:I've helped black people get jobs in Japan.
Jermaine Murray:Japan was the furthest.
Kelly Kennedy:Wow.
Jermaine Murray:Japan and Germany, the uk, like, all over Europe, primarily.
Jermaine Murray:A lot of the action happens in the United States and Canada.
Jermaine Murray:But, like, yeah, like, I've.
Jermaine Murray:We've had customers and clients and B2B and, like, businesses from all the way from, like, Japan and.
Jermaine Murray:And Germany ask us for help.
Jermaine Murray:I haven't been able to find a Spain.
Jermaine Murray:A Spanish partner quite yet, but I blame it on the fact that my.
Jermaine Murray:My Spanish sucks.
Jermaine Murray:I'm sorry.
Jermaine Murray:Duolingo, like, Duolingo's been hurt kind of.
Jermaine Murray:I.
Jermaine Murray:A dual lingo has been sending me some shady messages because she'd be like, yo, you haven't.
Jermaine Murray:You haven't.
Jermaine Murray:You haven't seen me in, like, two months.
Jermaine Murray:What's going on?
Jermaine Murray:I've just been busy.
Jermaine Murray:So, like, dual lingo bird is on my ass.
Jermaine Murray:But, like, yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:Oh, dude, no, this has been amazing.
Kelly Kennedy:Thank you so Much for coming on and chatting with us.
Kelly Kennedy:And not to mention, like, you know, we look at.
Kelly Kennedy:We look at followers in Canada a little different than the U.S.
Kelly Kennedy:like, the reality is you have 89,000 followers, and I'm sure to a lot of U.S.
Kelly Kennedy:people, it's not a big deal, but for Canadians, that's a huge, huge deal.
Kelly Kennedy:Dude, congratulations on growing your followers.
Jermaine Murray:And.
Kelly Kennedy:And, you know, I mean, that's just on LinkedIn.
Kelly Kennedy:We're not even talking about Twitter or anywhere else.
Kelly Kennedy:You are.
Jermaine Murray:So, yeah, I appreciate.
Kelly Kennedy:Amazing on your own personal branding, and I just want to congratulate you because that's not easy.
Kelly Kennedy:It is very hard, and you're killing it.
Jermaine Murray:Thank you.
Jermaine Murray:I appreciate that so much, Kelly.
Jermaine Murray:I appreciate you.
Jermaine Murray:Thank you for having me on, too.
Jermaine Murray:Like, it's literally been.
Jermaine Murray:I love talking.
Jermaine Murray:So, like, it's been a pleasure, man.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah, you too, dude.
Kelly Kennedy:And if people want to get a hold of you, they want to hire Jupiter hr.
Kelly Kennedy:What's the best way for them to do that?
Jermaine Murray:You can hit me up on my website, JupiterHR.ca.
Jermaine Murray:or you can message me on LinkedIn, Jermaine L.
Jermaine Murray:Murray.
Jermaine Murray:Or you can hit me up on Twitter, which is the Job Father, with two underscores.
Jermaine Murray:If you.
Jermaine Murray:If you want to know more about me, you could literally Google the Job Father and you'll see all, like, the articles, which I'm.
Jermaine Murray:I'm very fortunate and blessed to have.
Jermaine Murray:But, like, yeah, I say those are the.
Jermaine Murray:Are the best ways to, like, reach out and connect and always happy to have a chat if anybody wants to know.
Jermaine Murray:Like, you know, how are we doing when it comes to, like, hiring black people?
Jermaine Murray:Are we incorporating the right strategies or stuff that we can do better?
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:Yeah.
Kelly Kennedy:And obviously that applies to all minorities as well.
Kelly Kennedy:Not.
Kelly Kennedy:Not just black people.
Jermaine Murray:Yeah, no, we work.
Jermaine Murray:We do work and help with everyone, but like I said, our advocacy is around the black community.
Jermaine Murray:That's just a community that I'm from.
Jermaine Murray:And I.
Jermaine Murray:I know those experiences firsthand.
Jermaine Murray:And I know that a lot of times the stories, success stories, don't get a lot of light on them, and they should.
Jermaine Murray:They are just as compelling as any.
Kelly Kennedy:Others, you know, and.
Kelly Kennedy:And before we close up today, Jermaine, obviously we're talking to a lot of entrepreneurs on this show.
Kelly Kennedy:A lot of them are younger entrepreneurs.
Kelly Kennedy:Maybe they haven't even taken that leap.
Kelly Kennedy:And I'm confident that many, many, many of them are minorities, and I can't speak to them the way that you can.
Kelly Kennedy:And I was just really hoping that you could inspire them.
Kelly Kennedy:You've created an incredibly successful business.
Kelly Kennedy:You did it at 25 years old.
Kelly Kennedy:What type of, you know, motivation can you give these people who are right on the fence?
Kelly Kennedy:They have an amazing idea they just haven't leapt yet?
Jermaine Murray:I would say two things.
Jermaine Murray:One, find a problem that you are absolutely obsessively passionate about solving.
Jermaine Murray:Something that strikes you to your core, whether it's something that connects to like childhood trauma or childhood inspiration or a childhood hero.
Jermaine Murray:And like, center your focus around addressing that.
Jermaine Murray:And the second thing I would say is don't think, just act.
Jermaine Murray:I think the problem that a lot of people have is that they think they have to have a.
Jermaine Murray:They have to perfect their idea in order for it to be viable.
Jermaine Murray:And like the reality.
Jermaine Murray:And again, the experience I had at that VC place, the reality is that you launch it, something imperfect and you tweak it and build and improve it as it goes along?
Jermaine Murray:The best way to be able to grow your product, your business, your brand, your entrepreneurship is to put yourself out there, see what the response is, see what's working, trial and error, and tweak it as you go along.
Jermaine Murray:You always stay out of the game if you remain on the fence, right?
Jermaine Murray:It's better for you to dive in, fail, build again, fail build again, fail, build again, and then take off.
Kelly Kennedy:And you learn so much, right?
Kelly Kennedy:You learn so much more than you could ever imagine when you take that risk, when you take that leap.
Kelly Kennedy:And even if you fail, it's not really a failure because the lesson you learned will make you that much more successful the next time.
Jermaine Murray:Exactly.
Kelly Kennedy:Jermaine, this has been absolutely amazing.
Kelly Kennedy:Thank you so much for staying up so late and joining us on the business development podcast.
Jermaine Murray:Thank you for having me, Kelly, and all the best to you out in Edmonton, man.
Jermaine Murray:Thank you again.
Kelly Kennedy:Until next time, this has been the business development podcast and we will catch you on the flip side.
Podcast Host:This has been the business development podcast with Kelly.
Podcast Host:Kelly Kennedy.
Podcast Host: business development firm in: Podcast Host:His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development.
Podcast Host:The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your business development specialists.
Podcast Host:For more we invite you to the website at www.capitalbd.ca.
Podcast Host:see you next time on the Business Development PODC.
