Episode 192

Building Brands That Thrive: Nat Berman’s Guide to LinkedIn Success

In this episode, Kelly Kennedy dives deep into the world of personal branding with Nat Berman, co-founder of Brand Built and a trailblazer in digital media and LinkedIn strategy. Nat shares his remarkable journey from corporate life to building a thriving digital media empire with a portfolio of 25 websites. Leveraging his I.S.E. (Identify, Strategize, Execute) method, Nat has become a go-to expert in personal and professional branding, helping individuals and businesses establish authentic connections and grow their influence. He discusses how LinkedIn’s evolving algorithms have reshaped the platform and shares his insights on building genuine engagement by focusing on relationships, consistency, and value-driven content.

The conversation highlights actionable strategies for mastering LinkedIn, including the importance of authenticity, responding to every comment, and fostering a dedicated community. Nat also reflects on the broader significance of personal branding in the digital age, emphasizing that success comes not from shortcuts but from consistent effort and a clear sense of purpose. Whether you're an entrepreneur, a professional seeking to grow your network, or someone looking to enhance their brand presence, this episode is packed with inspiration and practical advice to help you thrive in 2025 and beyond.

Key Takeaways:

1. Consistency over time is critical to success in personal branding. Show up regularly and stay committed.

2. Engagement is key on LinkedIn. Responding to every comment and building real relationships drives growth.

3. Authenticity matters. People connect with genuine content that reflects your personality and values.

4. Focus on community building. Foster a loyal group of followers by providing value and nurturing relationships.

5. The power of persistence. Success doesn’t come from shortcuts; it requires sustained effort and strategic focus.

6. Personal branding is the future of business. Establishing your brand now will position you for long-term success.

7. Adapt to platform changes. Staying updated with evolving algorithms and trends ensures relevance and visibility.

8. Treat social media as a tool. Use platforms like LinkedIn to build your own community and not just for fleeting attention.

9. Master the fundamentals. Identify your strengths, strategize your approach, and execute with intention.

10. Align your goals with your actions. Understand your "why" and let it drive your branding and business decisions.

Learn More about Brand Built Here: https://joinbrandbuilt.com/


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Transcript
Kelly Kennedy:

Welcome to episode 192 of the Business Development Podcast.

Kelly Kennedy:

anding building your brand in:

Kelly Kennedy:

Stick with us.

Kelly Kennedy:

You are not going to want to miss this episode.

with Kelly for consistency):

The great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years.

with Kelly for consistency):

Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeeze out in any one deal.

with Kelly for consistency):

And we couldn't agree more.

with Kelly for consistency):

This is the Business Development Podcast, based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and broadcasting to the world.

with Kelly for consistency):

You'll get expert business development advice, tips and experiences and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs and business development reps.

with Kelly for consistency):

You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business brought to you by Capital Business Development, Capital Beach.

with Kelly for consistency):

Let's do it.

with Kelly for consistency):

Welcome to the Business Development Podcast.

with Kelly for consistency):

And now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly Kennedy:

Hello.

Kelly Kennedy:

Welcome to episode 192 of the Business Development Podcast.

Kelly Kennedy:

And on today's expert guest interview, I bring you a coaching rock star, Nat Berman.

Kelly Kennedy:

Nat is a trailblazer in the digital media landscape, renowned for his entrepreneurial spirit and relentless drive to forge his own path.

Kelly Kennedy:

In:

Kelly Kennedy:

Within six months, he had left his corporate job to embark on a new journey that would see him build a digital empire.

Kelly Kennedy:

Over 17 years, NAT cultivated a portfolio of 25 websites across diverse verticals, attracting millions of visitors monthly and generating substantial profits, all without ever taking on investment capital.

Kelly Kennedy:

His success is a testament to his strategic acumen, innovative mindset and unwavering commitment to excellence.

Kelly Kennedy:

Today, Nat leverages his extensive experience to empower others through his proven ISE identify, strategize and execute method.

Kelly Kennedy:

As the co founder of Brand Built and the CEO of Uncoached Corp, he helps individuals and businesses grow their brands, attract clients and expand their networks.

Kelly Kennedy:

Nat's method is not just a strategy, but a transformative approach to achieving holistic success, financial prosperity, improved health, and stronger personal connections.

Kelly Kennedy:

With his dynamic coaching and mentorship, Nat Berman is not just building businesses, he is igniting revolutions in personal and professional development.

Kelly Kennedy:

The journey from quitting a job to creating a digital media empire encapsulates the essence of Nat's philosophy.

Kelly Kennedy:

Seize control, break boundaries and redefine success on your own terms.

Kelly Kennedy:

And Nat, it's an honor to have you on the show today.

Nat Berman:

That was the best introduction I've ever got, bar none.

Nat Berman:

Not even close.

Nat Berman:

Not even close.

Kelly Kennedy:

Dude, I've been excited about this interview since we jotted back in March.

Kelly Kennedy:

In March, we had our first meeting together and I was like, I can't wait to do this.

Kelly Kennedy:

And it is now July 28th.

Kelly Kennedy:

After this episode, I'm heading on Canada Day weekend vacation.

Kelly Kennedy:

So I appreciate you holding in there and coming to this today.

Nat Berman:

Sure thing, man.

Nat Berman:

It's June 28th, not July.

Nat Berman:

Come on, man.

Nat Berman:

We still.

Kelly Kennedy:

Oh, my goodness.

Kelly Kennedy:

June 28th.

Kelly Kennedy:

Holy cow.

Nat Berman:

Yeah.

Nat Berman:

I'm living in the future, dude.

Kelly Kennedy:

Nat, it's an honor to have you on, dude.

Kelly Kennedy:

You know, I've been following you for quite some time on LinkedIn and your personal branding strategy is on point, my friend.

Kelly Kennedy:

It is amazing.

Kelly Kennedy:

The engagement that you get on there blows my mind.

Kelly Kennedy:

And, you know, I think in:

Kelly Kennedy:

That's what I'm seeing coming up all over the place.

Kelly Kennedy:

And, dude, you've been doing it.

Kelly Kennedy:

You've been killing it forever.

Kelly Kennedy:

And so, you know, we have some amazing people to come on and chat about this.

Kelly Kennedy:

But today I'm really excited because there's a lot of people who have big followings.

Kelly Kennedy:

There are not a lot of people who get the engagement on those followings that you do.

Kelly Kennedy:

And so I look forward to chatting with you today.

Kelly Kennedy:

The man of:

Kelly Kennedy:

And we're going to chat about that, too.

Kelly Kennedy:

But yeah, man, how did you end up on this journey?

Kelly Kennedy:

Who is Nat berman?

Nat Berman:

I guess LinkedIn would be the appropriate sort of origin story, right?

Nat Berman:

Basically, when Covid hit, right, everybody was bored sitting around, not really sure what to do.

Nat Berman:

I had a lot of experience with my sites in terms of growing a community, not like a literal one where you have, you know, some kind of a website.

Nat Berman:

But.

Nat Berman:

And this probably dates me a little bit, but a lot of people might remember a website by the name of dig.com-g.com which was basically a much more popular version at the time of Reddit.

Nat Berman:

And everybody now knows Reddit, right?

Nat Berman:

And Dig made a massive mistake in terms of redesigning its website, which kind of put it into the ground.

Nat Berman:

But there was a time when Digg would just, like, pummel people's homepages.

Nat Berman:

If you made it to the front page of Digg, you would get like a hundred thousand visits in a day.

Nat Berman:

And the way to get good at digging and get your stories noticed was to become what they called a power user.

Nat Berman:

And a power user was someone who basically had a lot of clout on the platform.

Nat Berman:

And how did you get a lot of clout?

Nat Berman:

You would support other users, you would talk to them, build relationships, and become just a really good networker.

Nat Berman:

Now, granted, this was very many years ago.

Nat Berman:

This is:

Nat Berman:

So years later, what I saw on LinkedIn was I was like, wow, these.

Nat Berman:

You know, some people, they don't really have, like, a lot of followers, but what's up with all this engagement?

Nat Berman:

What's up?

Nat Berman:

All the comments and the likes and all that kind of stuff.

Nat Berman:

d so it was like, it was late:

Nat Berman:

I decided, okay, well, I'm gonna just.

Nat Berman:

Let's see how I'm gonna do this.

Nat Berman:

And I saw a lot of videos on LinkedIn at the time.

Nat Berman:

Videos were big then.

Nat Berman:

So LinkedIn was it TikTok in:

Nat Berman:

Like, you could post anything and get like 100,000 views.

Nat Berman:

It was very, very easy.

Nat Berman:

2019, it was still not incredibly difficult, at least compared to today.

Nat Berman:

So I just started posting videos now.

Nat Berman:

I didn't really know the platform very well, so I hired a coach.

Nat Berman:

Lacy Abaki, wherever you are, thanks for helping me out a long time ago.

Nat Berman:

I haven't seen it.

Nat Berman:

She hasn't posted something in over a year.

Nat Berman:

But anyway, um, so I learned.

Nat Berman:

I learned how to build relationships, I learned how to network, I learned how to engage and all that kind of stuff.

Nat Berman:

And I built a following very quickly.

Nat Berman:

Uh, it was somewhere between nine and 12 months.

Nat Berman:

I got up to around 25,000 followers, which was really good, and not as good as some other people.

Nat Berman:

Some people were getting insane numbers at that time.

Nat Berman:

Uh, and honestly, when I started, it was really just to see if I could do it.

Nat Berman:

At the time, like I said, I didn't really have this MO on the platform other than just to see if I could grow it.

Nat Berman:

And so what wound up happening, which was interesting, was I started to get direct messages coming my way.

Nat Berman:

Do you do coaching?

Nat Berman:

Do you do coaching?

Nat Berman:

You know, can you help me?

Nat Berman:

And that was basically because a lot of the content that that would put out was around being an entrepreneur, growing a business, motivation, a lot of things like that, which is still a central kind of core of what I talk about today.

Nat Berman:

And I didn't know what the hell I was doing.

Nat Berman:

You know, I didn't really know how to get clients.

Nat Berman:

I had never become a coach before.

Nat Berman:

It's always been in my blood.

Nat Berman:

Both my parents are therapists, so, like, that's a whole nother story.

Nat Berman:

My niece is a therapist, my sister is an msw.

Nat Berman:

Like, it's a little crazy in my family and I nearly became one myself, but I just figured I knew how to help people, but I had no idea if I was going to be a good coach or not.

Nat Berman:

All of a sudden I was getting a lot of clients and probably maxed out.

Nat Berman:

I probably had around 15 clients at one point and I was still doing the websites.

Nat Berman:

ty, which would take place in:

Nat Berman:

And so it was a lot.

Nat Berman:

And quite frankly, I burned out.

Nat Berman:

I literally was like, I don't want to do this right now.

Nat Berman:

I didn't feel like coaching anymore.

Nat Berman:

And so I really slowed down on LinkedIn for a good two years.

Nat Berman:

You know, I was early:

Nat Berman:

2021 is when I was doing a lot on LinkedIn and then I literally was just coasting, right?

Nat Berman:

I would still post some stuff, but a lot of it was repurposed.

Nat Berman:

And by the way, there's nothing wrong with repurposing, but I wasn't putting out much new content.

Nat Berman:

Still had relationships on there, but I didn't really gain a following.

Nat Berman:

It just kind of, kind of flatlined at that 25,000 follower mark.

Nat Berman:

2023 rolls around, I had, I had sold my largest website and I sort of was under basically zero pressure on the websites these days.

Nat Berman:

They only take me like 20 minutes a day to update, so it's not a big deal.

Nat Berman:

And so frankly, I had some time on my hands and I was like, well, you know, maybe I'll give coaching another shot.

Nat Berman:

And there were a number of reasons for that.

Nat Berman:

I just, I wanted to coach a different type of client, wanted to charge higher rates and just give it a shot in a different way.

Nat Berman:

And so I get back on LinkedIn.

Nat Berman:

I started doing my normal routine, which was posting a video a day and a text post a day, and I was getting nowhere.

Nat Berman:

It was a whole new world.

Nat Berman:

LinkedIn was very different and a lot harder.

Nat Berman:

And I was pissed and frustrated and I was like, what the hell, I can't grow in here.

Nat Berman:

Why are all these people with:

Nat Berman:

And so I reached out to a lot of the old school people that I knew and frankly, a very large portion of them just, I think, were salty and pissed.

Nat Berman:

Just like, I was like, hey, what the hell is going on?

Nat Berman:

I'm not, I'm not, I don't, I don't deserve this.

Nat Berman:

I have 100,000 followers.

Nat Berman:

I'm getting no engagement.

Nat Berman:

Well, frankly, the LinkedIn algorithm very much changed, and they started rewarding people who were on the platform engaging and doing the work and actually, you know, spitting out really good content.

Nat Berman:

Because back in the day, you could post two sentence platitudes with an interesting gif and you'd be, you know, you get 100,000 views on your stuff.

Nat Berman:

That just didn't work anymore.

Nat Berman:

And so I talked to people who I knew had been putting in the time on the platform, and one of those people was Luke Matthews.

Nat Berman:

I always like to shout him out because he basically gave me the business.

Nat Berman:

He's like, dude, you're not doing, you know, you're not.

Nat Berman:

Your profile's not good.

Nat Berman:

You need a total revamp.

Nat Berman:

Your messaging sucks.

Nat Berman:

Like, he was just very honest with me.

Nat Berman:

I was like, damn, man, I needed to hear that.

Nat Berman:

He's like.

Nat Berman:

He's like.

Nat Berman:

And frankly, I can tell you're just not putting enough time into the platform.

Nat Berman:

I had people telling me I needed to start over, delete my account, all that stuff.

Nat Berman:

And From January of:

Nat Berman:

And I was still convinced I could do the same old stuff, even though I was engaging more and I was slowly picking up the pace.

Nat Berman:

But I still was not doing that great.

Nat Berman:

And I have the analytics to prove it.

Nat Berman:

When I came back in:

Nat Berman:

30, 40 comments a post, and half of those comments coming from me as a response to other comments.

Nat Berman:

And in January, it was around 100 ish, and I was like, okay, I'm kind of cracking through here.

Nat Berman:

Even though it was like a slow build.

Nat Berman:

And then there were two big moments.

Nat Berman:

an initial rebrand in July of:

Nat Berman:

So I had a designer come up with a theme, and I started doing slideshows, and they performed very, very well.

Nat Berman:

And I was like, ah, screw it.

Nat Berman:

I'm just going to do what, you know, other people are doing to get to get traffic here.

Nat Berman:

And as that crew, I did another rebrand.

Nat Berman:

And of all people, Yasmin Alich was the one who redid my brand on my branding, on my, you know, my profile, banner and all that stuff.

Nat Berman:

And at the time, I was like, I don't.

Nat Berman:

I really don't want to do slideshows anymore.

Nat Berman:

So I just went with the T shirts.

Nat Berman:

Everybody used to always talk about the T Shirts.

Nat Berman:

They always liked the T shirts.

Nat Berman:

I order two every month.

Nat Berman:

It's been something I've been doing for a long time.

Nat Berman:

I just, I just love, you know, pop culture and movies and TV shows and all that.

Nat Berman:

s in the T shirts back in the:

Nat Berman:

I used to film in the snow.

Nat Berman:

And people were like, what, are you insane?

Nat Berman:

I'm like, dude, it's two minutes.

Nat Berman:

Not a big deal.

Nat Berman:

Even though it was probably not.

Nat Berman:

Whatever.

Nat Berman:

Not advised.

Nat Berman:

It just turned into that, into selfies.

Nat Berman:

Same deal.

Nat Berman:

Sitting in a chair, in a shirt, whatever.

Nat Berman:

And I just felt those were a lot easier.

Nat Berman:

The issue with doing video on LinkedIn and it may change, is that to really get views on video, you, you, you have to have.

Nat Berman:

You have to accompany it with a lot of text.

Nat Berman:

If you do like a one line of text and do a video, I still don't think the algorithm really rewards it, and I still think impressions are somewhat limited, but who knows?

Nat Berman:

That may change with the new, you know, TikTok feed and all that stuff.

Nat Berman:

But as of right now, I've gotten.

Nat Berman:

I've had a nice groove for a good year, plus of just doing a picture of myself and what I hope to be a really good post.

Nat Berman:

And it just started growing and growing and growing.

Nat Berman:

And what I attribute it to is that all along, the entire time, it wasn't just going off and commenting on a zillion posts, it was responding to every comment and it was building relationships.

Nat Berman:

I built my own engagement list from scratch.

Nat Berman:

Didn't care about influencers.

Nat Berman:

I cared about people who were interested in my content and whose content I was interested in.

Nat Berman:

People who were just good people.

Nat Berman:

And when I look back and I see what I was doing and what we're doing now, I liken it very much to customer service.

Nat Berman:

Right?

Nat Berman:

You're just.

Nat Berman:

You're just being really good to the customer.

Nat Berman:

It's a little more than that because you are building an actual relationship with somebody.

Nat Berman:

But I tell everybody the same thing.

Nat Berman:

What got things growing and cooking was I always had the mindset, can I get one new really good follower every day?

Nat Berman:

One person, Just one.

Nat Berman:

Even if my, you know, even if my post gets 30,000 impressions, I just need one out of there to come back every day.

Nat Berman:

And it's not a lot, but it is a lot.

Nat Berman:

It's not easy, right?

Nat Berman:

Like, one sounds like nothing, but it's not easy.

Nat Berman:

It's like getting a Customer.

Nat Berman:

It's not the easiest thing in the world to do.

Nat Berman:

But if you can, like, let's say it's five days a week, right?

Nat Berman:

If you can just get one a day, you're talking 250 or however many new followers a year.

Nat Berman:

Then all of a sudden you formed a line at the door, right?

Nat Berman:

And the line at my door starts a little bit before 7am because everybody knows I post at 7am so people are like, how does that happen?

Nat Berman:

It's a very Justin Welshian kind of effect where it's like, everybody's lining up to comment on your post.

Nat Berman:

They want to be the first one there.

Nat Berman:

I mean, that's up to them.

Nat Berman:

I don't give a shit.

Nat Berman:

They can comment whenever the hell they want.

Nat Berman:

But it tends to work out that way where people like, oh, Nat posted at 7:00am and you know, I want to come in there and I want to comment and I want to support and all that kind of stuff.

Nat Berman:

So it just sort of built upon itself.

Nat Berman:

And like any other business or anything like that, there are waves.

Nat Berman:

I've had posts bomb.

Nat Berman:

I've had posts do really well.

Nat Berman:

I've never had a post go super viral, which is interesting.

Nat Berman:

I've had a post do over a hundred thousand impressions, I think, like twice.

Nat Berman:

Wow.

Nat Berman:

That's it.

Nat Berman:

I mean, I know people that have done millions on some posts and like, so what I have seen is a very slow and steady build.

Nat Berman:

And it's been very.

Nat Berman:

It's been intentional because I haven't gotten caught up in trends or formats or anything like that.

Nat Berman:

So it's really.

Nat Berman:

If you can just build a dedicated group of people who like what you're doing and you like what they're doing.

Nat Berman:

I know it sounds very, you know, simple or whatever.

Nat Berman:

It is simple.

Nat Berman:

It's just not easy.

Nat Berman:

And that's, that's kind of where I'm at right now with, with the whole LinkedIn journey.

Nat Berman:

And, you know, as long as it still works out well, I'm going to be on there.

Nat Berman:

It's my platform of choice.

Kelly Kennedy:

Yeah, yeah.

Kelly Kennedy:

And, you know, like, you talk about essentially the power and the community that you build around it and like, the podcast is the same way.

Kelly Kennedy:

Right.

Kelly Kennedy:

Like, you know, just like you, I've had shows that have bombed and I've had shows that have done amazing.

Kelly Kennedy:

And you.

Kelly Kennedy:

It's consistency over time that creates success.

Kelly Kennedy:

Right.

Kelly Kennedy:

It's not, it's not one post here or four posts here.

Kelly Kennedy:

I posted five times this week and I'm posting two times next week.

Kelly Kennedy:

It's being super consistent.

Kelly Kennedy:

And you post every single day.

Kelly Kennedy:

You know, you're up there with your T shirt and dude, your T shirts are amazing, by the way.

Kelly Kennedy:

I absolutely love that.

Kelly Kennedy:

That is like.

Kelly Kennedy:

And it's so funny, you know, I mean, I've been part of LinkedIn since, I don't know, like, and I'm late to the party.

Kelly Kennedy:

2013, I joined LinkedIn and I was late to the party and didn't know how to use it.

Kelly Kennedy:

lly, really use it until like:

Kelly Kennedy:

But, but I've never seen anybody do what you do.

Kelly Kennedy:

And it's like, it's crazy.

Kelly Kennedy:

It's like, it's a little bit hard to believe because it's, it's such an, it's just a really helpful, enticing post.

Kelly Kennedy:

You ask for a reshare, you always have something of value in your posts and it's you, you know, doing something awesome in a really cool T shirt.

Kelly Kennedy:

And I'm like, man, Nat has it on point.

Kelly Kennedy:

Thank you.

Nat Berman:

Appreciate that.

Kelly Kennedy:

You're, you're coaching well, paid off.

Kelly Kennedy:

I think, you know, most people wouldn't have ever even thought to do that though.

Kelly Kennedy:

You know, like, I think that's really forward thinking of you as somebody who is an expert coach to say, you know what, LinkedIn is something that there's a lot of experts in and I got a lot to learn here and it does make sense to hire a coach.

Kelly Kennedy:

You know, I don't think many people do that.

Nat Berman:

I think there's some validity to that.

Nat Berman:

Absolutely.

Nat Berman:

And if they do, oftentimes I think they're not thinking about it enough.

Nat Berman:

That's one thing I would, I would definitely say.

Nat Berman:

And the helping out on LinkedIn part wasn't even a part of my coaching that developed out of demand.

Nat Berman:

So:

Nat Berman:

That's all I did.

Nat Berman:

And it was very much business life coaching type of stuff.

Nat Berman:

You know, men in their 40s, 50s.

Nat Berman:

I don't know what to do with my life or I'm miserable in corporate or, you know, a lot, a lot of stories like that.

Nat Berman:

And I would just be helping them navigate.

Nat Berman:

But as I got more and more clients, they were all like, how are you doing this on LinkedIn?

Nat Berman:

What, that, you know, what's growing on.

Nat Berman:

How are you doing this on LinkedIn?

Nat Berman:

And I had my own coach at the time, trying to navigate, I was trying to navigate where I wanted to go with all of this because frankly, I didn't the one to one is what burned me out.

Nat Berman:

In:

Nat Berman:

Even though I had better clients, more money and that was all cool, I got all those things that I wanted, but frankly, it was, it was a little taxing.

Nat Berman:

And so all of a sudden this kind of business and branding product was born where it was basically like, all right, I'm not going to just do typical coaching here.

Nat Berman:

I'm going to help you grow and build your brand and build your business on LinkedIn as well.

Nat Berman:

And then through all of that coaching, then I was able to do a course, then I was able to open a community.

Nat Berman:

All that kind of stuff followed.

Nat Berman:

And since that time, now my one to one is basically zero and the community is full time.

Nat Berman:

So now instead of one to one, it's one to many with the option of if somebody wants my personal attention a little bit more, yes, they can do that, spend a little more in the community, that kind of thing.

Nat Berman:

But it was just a really interesting progression.

Nat Berman:

And one thing for anybody listening, don't listen.

Nat Berman:

mother was coming up to me in:

Nat Berman:

You should have a course, you should have a newsletter, you should do all.

Nat Berman:

Funnel, funnel, funnel, funnel, funnel.

Nat Berman:

Right?

Nat Berman:

Now, I'm not saying there's no place for a funnel.

Nat Berman:

I'm not saying that you shouldn't have a newsletter.

Nat Berman:

What I am saying is if you know exactly what you are doing and what your goals are, then the right strategy needs to come from that.

Nat Berman:

For me personally, I always found that talking to people was always my biggest strength.

Nat Berman:

Building relationships was always my biggest strength.

Nat Berman:

So why not sell that way, right?

Nat Berman:

And it's been a hell of a learning experience growing a community.

Nat Berman:

I went from a 45 minute conversation to close $4,000 a month to a 30 minute conversation to close $195 a month, right?

Nat Berman:

And most people would say I'm out of my mind, right?

Nat Berman:

Why would you do that?

Nat Berman:

The ROI is so terrible, right?

Nat Berman:

No, it's not.

Nat Berman:

Not after a long enough period, it all starts to even out.

Nat Berman:

And that's, and that's, that's on me because I started to let it get to me, right?

Nat Berman:

I started listening to that and my partner and I, we got to a point where initially we were recruiting everyone ourselves, but then we started selling by chat, like in the DMs.

Nat Berman:

And people would join, but they weren't as heavily invested in the community.

Nat Berman:

And we hit this weird rocky, like three week to one month period where we weren't recruiting one to one.

Nat Berman:

And then all of a sudden things just really changed when we went back to what got us there.

Nat Berman:

And everything changed when we went from one meeting a week to four.

Nat Berman:

And all of a sudden we're like, this is the stuff that people like.

Nat Berman:

It's the personal attention, it's the coaching, it's all of that.

Nat Berman:

It's not the fact that I have a course, sure, I got a course, it's a nice little addition.

Nat Berman:

But the main message, I guess I'm trying to relay is that whatever you do, whatever kind of business you're in, if you do something that works, just please continue doing it and just bleed it into the ground until it doesn't work and you have to pivot at some point.

Nat Berman:

But for now, you know, and I know that this is something that you wanted to talk about today in terms of branding.

Nat Berman:

Like, the bet that I place on myself and my business and my livelihood in the next 10 years is the fact that branding is growing as a way of building a business and relationships.

Nat Berman:

It's growing.

Nat Berman:

I don't suspect it's going anywhere.

Nat Berman:

I think the means by which it's being disseminated and pushed, that's always going to evolve.

Nat Berman:

So LinkedIn ain't what it used to be, and it's not going to be what it is now in five years.

Nat Berman:

But I think people getting out there and putting out a message, which is, which is the heart of what branding really is.

Nat Berman:

I don't see that going away anytime soon at all.

Kelly Kennedy:

No, me neither.

Kelly Kennedy:

Me neither.

Kelly Kennedy:

I think I've seen it coming for a while, right?

Kelly Kennedy:

It's been a slow build, right.

Kelly Kennedy:

, I started it in February of:

Kelly Kennedy:

Right?

Kelly Kennedy:

Like, I was operating my business.

Kelly Kennedy:

I was like, you, making a lot of phone calls, getting into a lot of meetings face to face, but was like, okay, something's changing.

Kelly Kennedy:

I either need to do a YouTube, I need to do a podcast, I need to do something that gets me out there.

Kelly Kennedy:

And I loved podcasts at the time.

Kelly Kennedy:

So for me, that was like the obvious thing.

Kelly Kennedy:

But I'll tell you what, I bought all my podcast equipment, I sat it in the corner of my room for almost two months, and my fiance pulled me aside and was like, you're either going to do something with that stuff or you're going to Sell it, because we need that money.

Kelly Kennedy:

But I was nervous, dude.

Kelly Kennedy:

Like, I was nervous to put myself out there.

Kelly Kennedy:

And I think that that's where a lot of people are.

Kelly Kennedy:

You know, it's not for everybody, but I do think, like, I do think it's the future of business.

Kelly Kennedy:

Like, personal brand is going to be a big deal.

Kelly Kennedy:

And I still have days where I struggle with this.

Kelly Kennedy:

You know, episode three.

Kelly Kennedy:

I almost didn't release episode three.

Kelly Kennedy:

There was nothing wrong with it, but I didn't like it.

Kelly Kennedy:

And I was.

Kelly Kennedy:

I was in this weird place of, like, do I even want to do this?

Kelly Kennedy:

Like, what am I doing with my life?

Kelly Kennedy:

And.

Kelly Kennedy:

And here we are, right?

Kelly Kennedy:

It's episode 192, and thank God I did.

Kelly Kennedy:

But.

Kelly Kennedy:

And it was the consistency over time that made this show successful.

Kelly Kennedy:

I released two shows a week, Wednesday, Sunday, without fail.

Kelly Kennedy:

I have not.

Kelly Kennedy:

I've not missed a single episode.

Kelly Kennedy:

And, you know, like you said, not all of the posts hit.

Kelly Kennedy:

Not all of the podcasts were hits.

Kelly Kennedy:

Right?

Kelly Kennedy:

But over time, they balanced out, and we had lots of wins and it worked out.

Kelly Kennedy:

But it isn't the one time you do it.

Kelly Kennedy:

It's what are you going to commit to.

Kelly Kennedy:

Right, I agree.

Nat Berman:

I couldn't agree more.

Nat Berman:

I mean, look, we live in a very divided point of view type of culture at this point, where it's like, you have a sense of entitlement right on one side.

Nat Berman:

And by the way, I'm not the get off my lawn old man here.

Nat Berman:

Like, I think that this generation is full of brilliant people who work their asses off.

Nat Berman:

So let's put that to bed.

Nat Berman:

Every generation has lazy and entitled people, right?

Nat Berman:

Like, but what I will say is there is a.

Nat Berman:

There's always a contingent that wants to take a shortcut, that wants to use tools or whatever means necessary to either inflate or speed up the process of any metric.

Nat Berman:

You know, views, impressions, revenue, I mean, you name it.

Nat Berman:

But there's also people that really do understand and believe in the value of building something and doing what it takes to build that.

Nat Berman:

You know, never would I recommend to someone to work 15 hours a day for five years, but I sure as hell wouldn't say no to do that for two years.

Nat Berman:

And you start optimizing and you start learning, and you start using leverage and things like that.

Nat Berman:

So one thing I do see now is, and there's opportunity every generation, every decade, whatever you want to call it, I just think there is that opportunity now.

Nat Berman:

But what my narrative is and what I'm trying to push out There constantly is like, put in the work, do the work.

Nat Berman:

Whether it's one to two hours a day or eight hours a day, I don't care, do it consistently.

Nat Berman:

The people that come to me that usually want help with LinkedIn, they can't put in the time that I do.

Nat Berman:

I do it full time.

Nat Berman:

This is what I do.

Nat Berman:

I'm on the platform answering dms, coaching people through chat.

Nat Berman:

It's not like I'm just responding to comments, although that's a shitload of what I have to do.

Nat Berman:

But yeah, you know, and I, and I'll also be the first to tell someone, look, if you have a half hour a day to put into this, you're not going to get a lot out of it.

Nat Berman:

It's just not, it's like what business works when you put in a half hour a day.

Nat Berman:

What full time gig can really work on a half an hour day?

Nat Berman:

Very few.

Nat Berman:

But if you have one to two hours a day and you can focus and put in strategic work and no shortcuts, no blunders, I personally think you can make a lot of progress in a 6 to 12 month period.

Nat Berman:

That doesn't mean you're making 50 grand a month like a lot of people promise.

Nat Berman:

It means you're making significant progress where you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, where you can see, holy shit, if I keep doing this, A, I'm going to not have to work as hard and B, I'll continue to grow my revenue, grow my influence, grow my network, whatever, you know, whatever your goals are, LinkedIn or any other social media platform, it's just a microcosm of the overall world out there of you get a contingent that tells you you can do everything and anything you want within five minutes.

Nat Berman:

Buy my course, right?

Kelly Kennedy:

Yeah.

Nat Berman:

And you also get a small realistic pocket of people who know what it takes.

Nat Berman:

And that's why my tagline is the business coach who actually runs a business.

Nat Berman:

Because that's in my way of saying, come on guys, like if you haven't really done it, don't call yourself one.

Kelly Kennedy:

Yeah.

Nat Berman:

And so, and the funny thing is about a lot of social media platforms, which I really like to get out there because look, I don't, I didn't, I never had the luxury of being like majorly successful.

Nat Berman:

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with what I did with the websites and that was, I guess you could call that successful by conventional means.

Nat Berman:

But I'm not like a baller, right?

Nat Berman:

Like I don't have A hundred million dollars in the bank.

Nat Berman:

And the funny thing that I'll always point out, those people aren't on social media, they're not on LinkedIn.

Kelly Kennedy:

That's right.

Nat Berman:

And you know what I'm using LinkedIn for?

Nat Berman:

To get to those people someday, to get to that level.

Nat Berman:

Not because they're at 100 million, but because the majority of those people know so much.

Nat Berman:

Because they're so educated and understand things and have access to stuff that just us folk don't.

Nat Berman:

And so I chose that route.

Nat Berman:

That's the route I've chosen.

Nat Berman:

I've chosen LinkedIn.

Nat Berman:

I've chosen Social media to say it's going to get me here.

Nat Berman:

Not fame, not because of fame.

Nat Berman:

And believe me, I could go on and on about fame and metrics.

Nat Berman:

And I've talked to the biggest influencers in the world, all their social media teams.

Nat Berman:

They'll all promise you the moon and stars.

Nat Berman:

And you know what?

Nat Berman:

They might get you the moon and stars as well.

Nat Berman:

A, it's going to cost you a lot of money, you know, 85 grand for six months was my last quote.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

Wow.

Nat Berman:

Just to grow on Instagram in the way that an influencer would grow or a big celebrity would grow.

Nat Berman:

But what it came down to, and by the way, there's nothing wrong with that either.

Nat Berman:

Like if you want to be famous, that's your goal.

Nat Berman:

Like, do it.

Kelly Kennedy:

Sure.

Nat Berman:

When I was approached by these people and I would, and I approached them as well to find out about their services, after every conversation, I would kind of take a step back because they all sounded so good.

with Kelly for consistency):

Right?

Nat Berman:

Like polished and here's what we'll do and here's where your account's gonna go.

Nat Berman:

And this is what it does.

Nat Berman:

I always had to step back and ask myself one question.

Nat Berman:

I would say, for what?

Nat Berman:

Why?

Nat Berman:

What is the point?

Nat Berman:

What would a million followers give me?

Nat Berman:

Right?

Nat Berman:

And the reality is it's perfect for a newsletter.

Nat Berman:

It's perfect for a low ticket item, a low ticket product.

Nat Berman:

It's perfect for getting someone in a funnel.

Nat Berman:

It's also perfect for getting famous, but for building a connection, for building a community of like minded people who respect and support each other.

Nat Berman:

I don't think a million followers cultivates that all that well.

Nat Berman:

It certainly doesn't do it as well as me talking to someone.

Nat Berman:

Just like I'm talking to you right now.

Nat Berman:

And even though it takes time and labor and work, Right.

Nat Berman:

Here we are, five months in, six months in, 164 members, all of a sudden word of mouth is spreading.

Nat Berman:

All of a sudden we're starting to get referrals instead of me having to push it.

Nat Berman:

And that to me is so much more valuable.

Nat Berman:

Long lasting, sticky.

Nat Berman:

Right?

Nat Berman:

And meaningful.

Nat Berman:

Again, I just want to point out, to each their own, man.

Nat Berman:

You want to go out and get 10 million followers and being a traditional influencer and get sponsored deals and all that kind of stuff, that is your right.

Nat Berman:

You have every right to do that and more power to you.

Nat Berman:

But at this point in my life, I'm 45 years old, I've got a family.

Nat Berman:

Yeah, it's nice to be recognized, nice to be known for some things, but I could give two shits about being, you know, famous for the sake of being famous.

Nat Berman:

If famous comes as a result of what I'm doing and building, so be it.

Nat Berman:

Cool, wonderful.

Nat Berman:

But, you know, I don't mean to get all deep in here, but like, you know, it's.

Nat Berman:

I feel very strongly about these things, and I think social media is a place that brings out the best and worst in you.

Nat Berman:

And I think it usually brings out the worst in people first because it's so easy to get caught in that hamster wheel of likes and comments and impressions, and I gotta grow, grow, grow, grow, grow.

Nat Berman:

But if you know why and what those metrics are really for and how they serve you, it takes a little bit of that pressure off.

Nat Berman:

And then all of a sudden, like, dopamine isn't that big a deal.

Nat Berman:

Right?

Kelly Kennedy:

Yeah.

Nat Berman:

So anyway, there's a right way to do it, and there's a way to do it that works and just, you know, be a person and build relationships and have a real good product and serve your audience, serve your customers.

Nat Berman:

And it's a lot of fundamental stuff, but some of the best in the world, you know, who've done this, I'm starting to understand and realize why they've become so successful.

Nat Berman:

Like.

Nat Berman:

Like the Bezos of the world, like an obsession with customer service.

Nat Berman:

You know, you look at something like that, or I look up to guys like Warren Buffett.

Nat Berman:

I don't look up to him because he's a billionaire.

Nat Berman:

I look up to him because he loves money, has always loved money, has always loved growing businesses, buying businesses, and he just does that.

Nat Berman:

And that's all he cares about.

Nat Berman:

And he does it better than anybody else.

Nat Berman:

And he's a bit of a higher example, and probably not the greatest one, because I know it's come at the detriment of some relationships in that guy's life, unfortunately, but in terms of a business acumen and Laser focus on what you want to do.

Nat Berman:

That's the stuff that I'm so impressed by and enamored with.

Nat Berman:

And hopefully, you know, we can do the same.

Kelly Kennedy:

Well, I think in a time of like, like you said, like, of easy connection, let's call it easy connection, right?

Kelly Kennedy:

It's easy to follow somebody on LinkedIn.

Kelly Kennedy:

It's easy to follow somebody on Instagram, right?

Kelly Kennedy:

What we're lacking is real connection and I feel like everybody's out there trying to find it and it's like as a species we just shot ourselves in the foot and we've, we've created fake connection like you said.

Kelly Kennedy:

And you know, just like you, I respond to everybody who messages us, we respond back.

Kelly Kennedy:

Everybody who comments, we comment back.

Kelly Kennedy:

We try to be real people, right?

Kelly Kennedy:

Everything we talk about on the business development podcast, podcast is about being a real authentic person.

Kelly Kennedy:

We're trying to push people back to, you know, make real connection, make real phone calls, book real face to face meetings and get to know people because that's what, that's what real relationship is built on.

Kelly Kennedy:

And I think as a community, we are suffering in a time of a whole bunch of fake connection pretending to be connected, if that makes sense.

Nat Berman:

Couldn't agree more, Couldn't agree more.

Kelly Kennedy:

It's a, it's such a weird paradigm, right?

Kelly Kennedy:

Because it's like we seem to be really okay with that, but it's like what we're really doing is taking time where we need to be creating both.

Kelly Kennedy:

So, you know, I guess the fact is I was going to ask you, like most of your posts are getting a thousand likes in, in a lot of cases, a thousand comments and I'm just like, dude, like how in the world are you able to keep up with that and stay sane?

Kelly Kennedy:

Like that's a job all on a full time job on its own.

Nat Berman:

I am a fast typer.

Nat Berman:

I do, I can think reasonably quick on my toes.

Nat Berman:

I don't use AI, I don't use va.

Nat Berman:

Never have.

Nat Berman:

I don't plan on it.

Nat Berman:

I'll never say never, right?

Nat Berman:

But I don't plan on AI anytime soon.

Nat Berman:

I do not plan on a VA anytime soon.

Nat Berman:

I can't see myself actually ever using a VA on my LinkedIn account ever.

Nat Berman:

But like I said, never say never.

Nat Berman:

So what I see happening if the account continues to grow is, you know, at some point I'll probably just have to kind of leave some comment or straggling and shit happens.

Nat Berman:

But it's usually that 6am to 10am block where it's like Very, very busy.

Nat Berman:

And then the rest of the day it ain't so bad.

Nat Berman:

It's not so bad.

Nat Berman:

It's usually those first three to four hours is when you see a lot of comments.

Nat Berman:

And don't forget, half of those comments are mine.

Nat Berman:

Right?

Nat Berman:

Their responses.

Nat Berman:

So it's really more like, you know, 500 or whatever.

Nat Berman:

Not that that's small, but.

Nat Berman:

No, but it's, it's.

Nat Berman:

But I tell everybody the same thing.

Nat Berman:

Like it's a choice.

Nat Berman:

It's a choice.

Nat Berman:

I'm, I'm very Gary V.

Nat Berman:

Old school.

Nat Berman:

Back when he was growing on Twitter, that was his style, just mass attention to people and responding.

Nat Berman:

And I just want to touch on what you said about real connection, because it's such a funny thing.

Nat Berman:

I find that this is an example I always like to use because I just think it's so relevant.

Nat Berman:

Cold calling, right?

Nat Berman:

Everybody hates cold calling.

Nat Berman:

Nobody likes cold calling.

Nat Berman:

Back in the 80s, 90s, whatever.

Nat Berman:

The best way of growing a business really was cold calling.

Nat Berman:

I mean, it was introducing yourself to people.

Nat Berman:

And even though it was tough, I did cold calling and early in my career, and I absolutely loathed cold calling because it's tough, it's scary to talk to someone that you know is probably going to reject you.

Nat Berman:

And I've had my fair share of horrible rejection.

Nat Berman:

Funny when you look back stories, guy told me to jump out of a window.

Nat Berman:

You know, things like that.

Nat Berman:

Oddly enough, I called him back and I said, this is the guy who's jumped out the window.

Nat Berman:

And he was like, don't ever call me again.

Nat Berman:

Because I had to stay sane that day.

Nat Berman:

I remember that.

Nat Berman:

But the, the thing is, is that what you just said about fake connection I find so interesting because you couldn't really fake it on the phone, right?

Nat Berman:

You can, you can fake it on social media, but you also have an equal, equally as effective, if not better opportunity to build that relationship through digital media and not a telephone.

Nat Berman:

That's what I love about a LinkedIn or any social media platform that you pick up on.

Nat Berman:

And I'll explain what that means.

Nat Berman:

Anyone who comments on my post, anyone on my first connection with anyone who views my post, anyone who.

Nat Berman:

Or views my profile, or anybody who's following me.

Nat Berman:

I feel very comfortable just saying hello.

Nat Berman:

I'm not necessarily having to pitch them like crazy, right?

Nat Berman:

And yes, I do pitch.

Nat Berman:

And I'll say, you know, I'm running this community.

Nat Berman:

Would you like to learn more?

Nat Berman:

But that doesn't scare me or intimidate me like a cold call would.

Nat Berman:

And so to Me, there's just this beautiful new world of relationship building that you can take advantage of where no's don't bother me at all.

Nat Berman:

Like, I don't give two shits about a no, who cares?

Nat Berman:

Yeah, and you got a billion people on a platform.

Nat Berman:

Clearly not a billion or a fit for what I'm doing.

Nat Berman:

But the point is that you have that opportunity.

Nat Berman:

And so someone take like this is how I look at someone commenting on my stuff.

Nat Berman:

They could have been doing anything in the entire world at that moment in time, anything or something else other than what they were doing.

Nat Berman:

And they took that time out to either look at my posts or not even look at my posts.

Nat Berman:

Who knows, maybe some people are just commenting and they don't know what the hell you know, I don't care.

Nat Berman:

But they took that time to put that little thing in there.

Nat Berman:

And in this world of zero attention, fake attention, fake relationships, that to me is as real as it gets.

Nat Berman:

Whether it's an AI generated comment or not.

Nat Berman:

Someone chose my account to engage with.

Nat Berman:

And so I have in my opinion, the right, and not only the right, but the obligation to explore that a little bit further.

Nat Berman:

If I see that that person's profile might be a potential fit with what I'm doing, whether that's my business or whether that's personal doesn't matter.

Nat Berman:

And so to me, there's just this ample opportunity to siphon out folks that might not be a fit or whatever.

Nat Berman:

It's almost like you know what it's like.

Nat Berman:

It's like Internet dating, right?

Nat Berman:

When you think about it, like if you've been on LinkedIn long enough, you can look at a profile and know in five seconds that guy's real or that girl's real, that one's fake.

Nat Berman:

This is bullshit.

Nat Berman:

This one's real.

Nat Berman:

It's like a dating profile.

Nat Berman:

When you used to see someone's picture, it would be like, that's not really them.

Nat Berman:

I don't buy that.

Nat Berman:

You know what I mean?

Nat Berman:

And like you can tell when they're embellishing or like a job title where it's like it's not really what they do or.

Nat Berman:

And so that there's, there's a comfort in that, in the sense that like instead of having to go to a bar and cold meet someone scared to.

Nat Berman:

Scared, you know, scared.

Nat Berman:

Scared of your life and not knowing what you're going to say to that person, you can sort of do a little due diligence and you can see a little bit about that person before.

Nat Berman:

And then finally when the moment comes and you're talking to that person on a zoom.

Nat Berman:

It's not in person, but it's close enough.

Nat Berman:

It's pretty damn close.

Nat Berman:

That person can look at that other person and think to themselves, you know what?

Nat Berman:

You're just like I thought you'd be.

Nat Berman:

And that's a magical moment and it's a great affirmation of, of everything that you thought about that person.

Nat Berman:

And sometimes it's even better, sometimes it's worse.

Nat Berman:

It happens.

Nat Berman:

But what I've seen is that the more people I meet with, you know, face to face, I find it to be very refreshing because we've had enough dialogue back and forth prior to know that, hey, this will be a pretty cool talk or I won't be wasting my time here, you know.

Kelly Kennedy:

Yeah.

Nat Berman:

And that to me is, I'll stress this word using social media properly instead of letting it use you.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

Which is what most social media does to people.

Nat Berman:

Hell, I get used every day by TikTok, right?

Nat Berman:

I'm scrolling up and down and looking for interesting things to see and I crawl down all those holes and I get screwed with doom scrolling.

Nat Berman:

But as best as I can help it, I know that I'm using LinkedIn as much as it's using me.

Nat Berman:

And that's, That's a good.

Nat Berman:

That's a symbiotic relationship.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

It's a good relationship to have.

Nat Berman:

Too many people aren't.

Nat Berman:

But I feel pretty confident in what I'm doing.

Kelly Kennedy:

It.

Kelly Kennedy:

Man, I love that.

Kelly Kennedy:

I love that analogy.

Kelly Kennedy:

I've.

Kelly Kennedy:

I've talked to so many people and I've never had that particular one come up.

Kelly Kennedy:

And you're absolutely right.

Kelly Kennedy:

And it's like, what.

Kelly Kennedy:

How do you change that dynamic from social media using you to having a mutually beneficial relationship with it?

Kelly Kennedy:

Because like you said me, millions of other people struggling immensely with that relationship.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Kelly Kennedy:

That's why it exists.

Kelly Kennedy:

It exists to take advantage of people like us who have struggled to figure out what to do with it.

Kelly Kennedy:

And I think I'm getting better with it.

Kelly Kennedy:

I'm by no means anywhere close to you.

Kelly Kennedy:

There's lots of people that I talk to who wish they could do more with their socials.

Kelly Kennedy:

Talk to me about the choice that has to be made.

Nat Berman:

Oh, man.

Nat Berman:

One choice that I made, and this was back in The June of 23, thing was I made a deliberate choice to not worry about any other social media platform at all other than LinkedIn.

Nat Berman:

And it.

Nat Berman:

That's still the case to this day.

Nat Berman:

Yes, I have a Twitter account.

Nat Berman:

Yes, I have an Instagram account?

Nat Berman:

Yes, I have a TikTok account and I even have a frickin whatever threads account.

Nat Berman:

I mean, you name it, I have those accounts.

Nat Berman:

But they are all placeholders and I put content up on those sites.

Nat Berman:

But there's a case where I use automation, I use Opus Clip.

Nat Berman:

So I chop up a lot of our meetings and I'll schedule it out to four different social media platforms.

Nat Berman:

That's the extent I put into other social media platforms.

Nat Berman:

LinkedIn, five plus hours every single day.

Nat Berman:

So that's one choice that I did make.

Nat Berman:

Everything else I wish I could say was a very deliberate, you know, but it's day by day.

Nat Berman:

Sometimes I'll scroll on TikTok for 20 minutes and sometimes it's an hour plus and that sucks.

Nat Berman:

And I always feel like shit afterwards.

Nat Berman:

Like, what did I just do?

Nat Berman:

Why'd I waste my time?

Nat Berman:

I need to read a book.

Nat Berman:

Right?

Nat Berman:

But the more, I guess one solution I would put into that is I'm a big believer in habit building.

Nat Berman:

You know, I'll take habits over motivation any day of the week.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

And I tend to think that motivation results from the right habits.

Nat Berman:

I'm also big on routines, not scheduling routines.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

And knowing that, hey, from 6 to 10, this is where my brain is.

Nat Berman:

And from 10 to 11 I'm at the gym and when I come home I'm going to eat lunch.

Nat Berman:

And then from 12 to 6, this is where my brain is.

Nat Berman:

And yeah, it changes every day, but it's about being in a certain mode, I think.

Nat Berman:

So I wish I had a specific answer in terms of how to like, cure one's relationship to social media, but I think that cure lies in the fact that if you, if you are getting your intended outcome from that relationship, then it's a beneficial relationship.

Nat Berman:

Unfortunately, most people's unintentional intentional outcomes are.

Nat Berman:

I want to be entertained.

Nat Berman:

Yeah, I want my dopamine fix.

Nat Berman:

That's when you go wrong.

Nat Berman:

My intended outcome is to build an incredible community of people that are learning and getting better.

Nat Berman:

And when that's more.

Nat Berman:

When that's what's focused in my brain, it makes it a hell of a lot easier to use those platforms the way that I know that they should be used.

Nat Berman:

But again, there's a time and place for just chilling and scrolling and relaxing.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

Like I always say, sometimes doing nothing is the best something you can do.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

Everybody needs a break.

Nat Berman:

Everybody needs to detox and get the hell away.

Nat Berman:

But yeah, man, when I'm in, when it's game time for me, like, you know, the brain is very focused on one thing.

Kelly Kennedy:

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy:

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy:

Well, I don't know about like, you know, I mean, I'm sure you're in kind of the similar boat, but it feels like we're really busting our asses out here a lot of the time, you know, like, I'm a hard worker.

Kelly Kennedy:

I know you're a hard worker.

Kelly Kennedy:

I get up at 5:30 every day.

Kelly Kennedy:

I'm doing the things I need to be doing.

Kelly Kennedy:

I'm probably done my day, if I'm lucky, at 6.

Nat Berman:

Yeah, that's, that's kind of what I do.

Nat Berman:

Very similar.

Kelly Kennedy:

Right.

Kelly Kennedy:

I'm steal, I'm stealing hours from the morning because I don't want to steal hours from my night because my boys and my, and my fiance deserve my time.

Nat Berman:

Same deal.

Kelly Kennedy:

So I'm always trying to rob time and usually that robbing of time is before everyone wakes up.

Kelly Kennedy:

And there's something really magical about that 5:30am moment.

Kelly Kennedy:

I absolutely love it.

Kelly Kennedy:

And I wasn't a morning person and I became one out of necessity, but now I love it.

Kelly Kennedy:

And I think, you know, it comes with that internal drive.

Kelly Kennedy:

Right.

Kelly Kennedy:

We're both incredibly internally driven people and I think on a certain level there has to be something bigger that you're working towards.

Kelly Kennedy:

Right.

Kelly Kennedy:

Like with me, you're right.

Kelly Kennedy:

I want to build a huge community in the business development space.

Kelly Kennedy:

I want to help a whole lot of entrepreneurs, a whole lot of business development people do better than I did.

Kelly Kennedy:

Because when I came into this space, there was nothing for us.

Kelly Kennedy:

There wasn't a book, there wasn't anything.

Kelly Kennedy:

I was, I learned the whole thing on my own and now we teach it.

Kelly Kennedy:

And you know, I see you doing the same thing, saying like, here, you know, I had to learn this stuff the hard way.

Kelly Kennedy:

Let me save you years and I will teach you how to do this.

Kelly Kennedy:

We'll work through the challenges that I went through as an entrepreneur, as somebody growing social media, and we're going to build this amazing community together.

Kelly Kennedy:

But we're driven by those passions.

Kelly Kennedy:

Right?

Kelly Kennedy:

I think that's it.

Kelly Kennedy:

Like, the secret is you need to figure out your why.

Kelly Kennedy:

What is your why?

Kelly Kennedy:

Why are you doing this?

Kelly Kennedy:

Why are you going to be on social media and then work backwards from the why?

Nat Berman:

Yeah, I definitely agree with that.

Nat Berman:

And I also think what's another thing that's important is that why doesn't have to be something you were like, born to do.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

You know how some people are, they're born to swing a baseball bat.

Nat Berman:

Some people are born to sing, right.

Nat Berman:

I wasn't born to do anything.

Nat Berman:

I wanted to be a pro tennis player at one point in my life, and I was a decent athlete.

Nat Berman:

But I'll tell you one thing I was born for.

Nat Berman:

It was to never have a boss, right?

Nat Berman:

And that, that much I knew it was.

Nat Berman:

I never wanted authority, right?

Nat Berman:

And not in a mean way.

Nat Berman:

I had plenty of bosses that were nice.

Nat Berman:

I just never liked being told what to do because I wanted.

Nat Berman:

I wanted the freedom to choose for myself.

Nat Berman:

And so when I quit my job, because, I gotta say, my first six and a half years out in the real world, corporate world, whatever, I just.

Nat Berman:

I didn't work nearly as hard as I was capable of working.

Nat Berman:

I didn't.

Nat Berman:

I was always pretty good at my job and excelled decently, and so I was always safe.

Nat Berman:

I wouldn't get fired or anything like that.

Nat Berman:

And I could make a living.

Nat Berman:

But I never understood what it took to put everything I had into something.

Nat Berman:

I just didn't.

Nat Berman:

I understood, but I didn't.

Nat Berman:

I wasn't doing it.

Nat Berman:

And when I left my job, nothing, I just.

Nat Berman:

It was like a switch went off.

Nat Berman:

And for the last 17 years, my brain's just been like, go, go, go, go, go, go, go.

Nat Berman:

In a good way, not a bad way, in a good way.

Nat Berman:

And so whether that thing is not having a boss, financial freedom, more time with your kids, whatever that thing is, obviously that's a why.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

That usually can drive activity and action and passion, for that matter.

Nat Berman:

I believe that passion, just like motivation, tends to be a result often.

Nat Berman:

You know, some of us are born with this natural talent or passion for something.

Nat Berman:

But you'd be surprised how many people become passionate about something once they become good at it.

Kelly Kennedy:

Yes.

Nat Berman:

While in the beginning hating it.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

So passion, I think, is definitely can, can be a byproduct of hard work, of.

Nat Berman:

Of energy, of action.

Nat Berman:

And so, yeah, and, and what's nice is when you can revive that in a way, every however many years, right?

Nat Berman:

So, like, I never thought I would be done with the websites.

Nat Berman:

Like, I never, like, not that I'm done, but like, I never thought that they would not be primary in my business life.

Nat Berman:

But I have, I have rekindled that exact same fire I had when I left my job and was my own boss that very first day and worked endlessly.

Nat Berman:

That energy is right back, which is great.

Nat Berman:

And I see that lasting this next decade, and that'll be my hopefully final hurrah.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

But I don't ever see myself fully stopping or not being involved and we can go off in the next five hours about.

Nat Berman:

I don't believe in retirement and all that kind of stuff, which I don't.

Nat Berman:

I consider myself retired by my own definition, which is doing what I want, when I want, with who I want, and having the means to do so.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

You mentioned your family.

Nat Berman:

I can guarantee you this.

Nat Berman:

I can already tell this about you, and I know this about myself.

Nat Berman:

You may work or be up from 5:30 and grind away till 6, but at a moment's notice, you'll stop what you're doing if something's going on with your family or your kids or your fiance, and you'll take the time out of your day to do whatever.

Nat Berman:

I've been in my pool four times this week during the day, because I have that option.

Nat Berman:

I have that ability to do that just because, like, I don't care.

Nat Berman:

All right, well, then I'll work too late if I have to.

Nat Berman:

You know, it doesn't.

Nat Berman:

And that, to me, is the freedom of being an entrepreneur and the freedom of making your own hours.

Nat Berman:

Obviously, it's a bunch of horseshit that, like, hey, you can get away with working one hour a day.

Nat Berman:

Like, yeah, technically I probably could, but I would be miserable.

Nat Berman:

I really would be miserable if I.

Nat Berman:

If I wasn't driven towards something and doing something.

Nat Berman:

And many people would argue, like, well, you just don't have enough interest in your life.

Nat Berman:

Really.

Nat Berman:

There's no way I would enjoy sitting on a beach all day, every day.

Nat Berman:

Like, there's just no way.

Nat Berman:

Yeah, I.

Nat Berman:

Yeah, I go on vacation, I get antsy to come home within three days every single time.

Nat Berman:

Give me as many coladas and blue water as you can.

Nat Berman:

It's.

Nat Berman:

It's gonna get old, man.

Nat Berman:

I.

Nat Berman:

There's got to be.

Nat Berman:

And this is what, you know, purpose.

Nat Berman:

Why that has to be there in my life, otherwise it's just too freaking boring.

Nat Berman:

And now.

Nat Berman:

Now I feel very aligned with that and just want to keep pressing forward.

Nat Berman:

It's not about an end.

Nat Berman:

It's not about a dollar amount.

Nat Berman:

It's just about living.

Nat Berman:

And it's like, if you're not living with some sort of desire to do something, be something, help someone, whatever.

Nat Berman:

That to me, is what makes life stagnant and boring.

Nat Berman:

I can't sit around and watch TV all day.

Nat Berman:

I love watching movies, man, I do.

Nat Berman:

I love watching tv.

Nat Berman:

I love of, you know, whipping out a bowl of popcorn.

Nat Berman:

But if I'm doing it for eight hours, yeah, I'm gonna feel like.

Nat Berman:

And be angry at myself and not want to do it anymore.

Kelly Kennedy:

Well, and I always encourage people who are on the fence to like, take that leap.

Kelly Kennedy:

Like, if you're on the fence about starting your own business and you know, you've been working a career for a long time, it might be, you know, just like not saying, it might be that kick in the ass that you need to really find your purpose.

Kelly Kennedy:

I think a lot of people are just lost because we're fed.

Kelly Kennedy:

Like, we're fed a line that you can just work somewhere and get your paycheck every two weeks and not worry about anything.

Kelly Kennedy:

But you're right.

Kelly Kennedy:

It's like there's a part of us that's lost in that big time.

Nat Berman:

And for those thinking about like quitting a job or anything like that, like, I'm also, I'm also a big proponent and advocate of not being dumb and just quitting your job with no bank account, nothing saved.

Nat Berman:

Like, be practical, be smart.

Nat Berman:

When I quit, I had six months of savings and my then girlfriend was working and we had an apartment in New York City and granite.

Nat Berman:

You know, I was a little worried, but I had a little bit of Runway.

Nat Berman:

But what I think Kelly's talking about is at some point you gotta, you gotta step off the ledge.

Nat Berman:

And at some point you have to put yourself involved in that situation that will in some way push you a little bit.

Nat Berman:

Granted, you have to push yourself first to get there.

Nat Berman:

But you know, something I'll always say about, hey, if you're working and you and you and you really dream of going off on your own, you can't treat a side hustle like a side hustle.

Nat Berman:

You got to treat it like a business.

Nat Berman:

It's just part time, but it ain't no side hustle.

Nat Berman:

I don't like the word side hustle.

Nat Berman:

I never have.

Nat Berman:

Because it's an additional form of revenue that you need to take seriously, especially if you want to turn it into a full time source of revenue.

Nat Berman:

Right?

Nat Berman:

So whether that's an hour a day or five hours a day, you got to commit.

Nat Berman:

That's why I always tell people, look, if you put in an hour or two hours a day, you will get out of that nine to five if you really stick to it and dedicate yourself to it.

Nat Berman:

I did.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

I'm no more special than anybody else.

Nat Berman:

And other people can as well.

Nat Berman:

So.

Kelly Kennedy:

Yeah, totally.

Kelly Kennedy:

Well, and let's just lead right into it.

Kelly Kennedy:

You've built a community for people just like the ones we're talking to right now.

Kelly Kennedy:

Let's talk about brand build.

Nat Berman:

Sure.

Nat Berman:

So brand built.

Nat Berman:

Brand Built was the inception of myself and my partner, Darren Mass.

Nat Berman:

And I got to know Darren because I was on his podcast and his podcast was.

Nat Berman:

Is called I Took a Hike.

Nat Berman:

And he would go on hikes with founders and entrepreneurs.

Nat Berman:

So we went on this like three hour, badass hike, which scared the out of me at some points.

Nat Berman:

And I was not wearing hiking shoes.

Nat Berman:

I didn't know, but it was like a little.

Nat Berman:

Much more than my level of hiking.

Nat Berman:

I'm used to, like, flat ground and just like walking.

Nat Berman:

Yeah, the way up was fun.

Nat Berman:

The way down was not cool.

Nat Berman:

And so we really hit it off.

Nat Berman:

And he had been doing coaching, same as me, business coaching.

Nat Berman:

But he was very successful prior to that.

Nat Berman:

million bucks back in:

Nat Berman:

And so after:

Nat Berman:

He had to stay for a year.

Nat Berman:

He sold it to a public company.

Nat Berman:

He stayed for, I think it was a year, I'm not sure.

Nat Berman:

And then right after that, he went into coaching.

Nat Berman:

He went to business coaching.

Nat Berman:

But funny enough, he went into this phase of knowing he didn't really have to work again.

Nat Berman:

He got depressed.

Nat Berman:

So this is a great follow up to what you and I were just talking about.

Nat Berman:

My own business partner was like, fully depressed because he was doing nothing all day and hated it.

Nat Berman:

So he picked up coaching, started coaching people on their businesses.

Nat Berman:

So we went on this hike, we got along really well, decided maybe we'll do something, who knows?

Nat Berman:

We had a couple of ideas, a couple things we were throwing around, and they involved tech that was really expensive.

Nat Berman:

So we tried to find some developers for equity.

Nat Berman:

None of them would bite.

Nat Berman:

So we kind of shelved it and it was, it was in the realm of coaching.

Nat Berman:

It was like, kind of like an online network thing where you would connect people to coaches, like around the.

Nat Berman:

In certain fields.

Nat Berman:

And so that didn't work out.

Nat Berman:

And then I got on a conversation with someone on LinkedIn and we were talking about, you know, coaching, and the guy says to me, have you ever done a community?

Nat Berman:

I was like, no.

Nat Berman:

I've heard too many people burn out.

Nat Berman:

I've heard too many bad stories about communities.

Nat Berman:

He's like, well, why don't you just do it with a partner?

Nat Berman:

I was like, maybe that could make sense.

Nat Berman:

And so I approached Darren and he's like, hell yeah, let's do it.

Nat Berman:

I was like, okay, well, here's, you know, we'll.

Nat Berman:

We'll put up a course and we'll do weekly calls and let's give it a Go.

Nat Berman:

So we went on the school platform, which we found to fit the most in terms of user experience.

Nat Berman:

And it had a very similar feel to LinkedIn, just in terms of like liking and commenting and chatting with people.

Nat Berman:

You know, there was, there's mighty networks and circle and we were looking at other ones, but we figured, what the hell, 99 bucks a month and you could start in five minutes.

Nat Berman:

Like literally it was in five minutes.

Nat Berman:

I had to scramble to put together the course because that was from scratch.

Nat Berman:

So that was a little bit of a pain.

Nat Berman:

But it was all happening as we were growing.

Nat Berman:

So what we did was we basically had, you know, an initial group of like eight to 10 people.

Nat Berman:

They were all free members, our founding members.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

And we grew it to 20 like really fast.

Nat Berman:

It was like a day or two, you know, it was all like people we knew and we just, we just off we went.

Nat Berman:

And this is no different than any entrepreneurial, any other entrepreneurial endeavor.

Nat Berman:

I'm learning as I go, man.

Nat Berman:

Like, I'm learning as I go.

Nat Berman:

So we've gone from, you know, that initial.

Nat Berman:

st of:

Nat Berman:

So since that time we're now at 164 members.

Nat Berman:

We've doubled our rates, which is great.

Nat Berman:

We're pretty much picking up like a new member every day.

Nat Berman:

But the way that, the way that it's all run just changed so much because I initially thought this was going to be a very course driven community where like, oh, everyone would sign up for the course.

Nat Berman:

Turns out everybody's signing up for the meetings and everybody's signing up for the support and everybody's really signing up.

Nat Berman:

Darren made a very good point to me the other day.

Nat Berman:

Goes, he goes, the product is us, it's not our courses, product is our expertise and what we bring to the table in terms of our coaching and our business acumen.

Nat Berman:

And so Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, people get LinkedIn help, they get business help, they get support, and I mean support in every way possible.

Nat Berman:

I don't shy away from the word support group.

Nat Berman:

We got people that are lonely, that are freaking out, that are scared of what they're doing and they need, they need to share that.

Nat Berman:

I think that's a critical component to the entrepreneurial journey, right, Is the fact that you are not alone and that you can talk about how scared you are.

Nat Berman:

It's important and it's really, it's really developed into that.

Nat Berman:

And so, but typically when, if someone will reach out to me for the community, it's very LinkedIn centric, there's no question because every person on, in our community has a LinkedIn profile.

Nat Berman:

Most of them are creators and so there is that common thread.

Nat Berman:

So there is a course, right, that I put together.

Nat Berman:

It's a 12 week LinkedIn course, very similar to like a Justin Welch and Welch type of course.

Nat Berman:

Although I'd put mine up against his any day of the week or anyone for that matter.

Nat Berman:

It's very different in nature.

Nat Berman:

And then you know, there's another course on there.

Nat Berman:

It's like a productivity course but the real draw, it's the discussion boards and it's the meetings now you miss.

Nat Berman:

Like we joke around a ton when we introduce someone.

Nat Berman:

I have a little, my little thing every time, every time someone joins I ask them before they join what's your favorite movie?

Nat Berman:

Then I post a funny gif of a scene from the movie just to give them a warm welcome and we'll razz somebody, we'll haze people.

Nat Berman:

It's fun and we just, we just have a blast in there.

Nat Berman:

We have a really good time.

Nat Berman:

Yeah.

Nat Berman:

And we've, Darren and I have effectively shut down our one to one coaching practices and just recently, only in the last two weeks have we started providing that to our community.

Nat Berman:

So if somebody wants to do a group, we'll do groups of five and Darren and I will run those groups.

Nat Berman:

If somebody wants individual coaching, they can choose two to one Darren and I will coach them or they could choose Darren or myself and that'll be a one to one arrangement.

Nat Berman:

Obviously those prices are higher than the community.

Nat Berman:

Community's 195 bucks a month used to be 100 and we found that again a learning on the fly.

Nat Berman:

I never knew, right?

Nat Berman:

Like at 100 bucks a month we were getting like credit card cancellations and rebellious community members who thought they could do it better and they decided to leave and try to take people from our group and all kinds of stuff that we've been learning.

Nat Berman:

And yeah, by the way, wherever you are out there, I know that your group is still sitting at a very low number and you haven't really grown.

Nat Berman:

It's leaving us but you know, it's, it's been a lot of fun and I can tell you right now, I mean we're literally only like not even six months in and it's going to be real different in a year.

Nat Berman:

And one of the things that we're.

Nat Berman:

That, that I have promised or I want to keep my promise as much as I can is, is right now I'm very available to people right so like I get people reaching out to me all the time and one of my biggest assets that people always say is like dude, I don't know how you get back to me so quickly.

Nat Berman:

Da da da da da.

Nat Berman:

That is one area that I want to stay very, very steadfast on, that we don't want to change.

Nat Berman:

Which is like, okay, well as these numbers grow, how much attention can I really give people?

Nat Berman:

And so right now I feel like 300 is probably our max in terms of where our personal attention is going to be able to go.

Nat Berman:

And at that point I would do one of two things.

Nat Berman:

We'd either stop, shut off the group, regroup, figure out how we'll grow or before that time and my guess is we would, it'll be the latter.

Nat Berman:

Somewhere around 250 we're going to look for someone else.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

As we continue to grow.

Kelly Kennedy:

Okay.

Nat Berman:

So it's, it's a really fun group to have.

Nat Berman:

And you and I had talked about this a little bit like communities just aren't delivering in my opinion as much as they probably should.

Nat Berman:

And so that, that is one of the main reasons we even started one.

Nat Berman:

It's like, wow, what if there was a place where people had four coaching calls a week, 200 bucks a month, an obscene amount of personal attention that doesn't really exist.

Nat Berman:

It doesn't really exist out there.

Nat Berman:

So we decided to do that and that's where I am and hopefully we'll be for a number of years.

Kelly Kennedy:

Nah, that sounds absolutely amazing.

Kelly Kennedy:

It like honestly the value there seems amazing and I'm sure there's people listening who want to join.

Kelly Kennedy:

How can they join Brand Belt?

Nat Berman:

So every person who joins has to talk to me or Darren first.

Nat Berman:

That's how we keep the quality of members really high.

Nat Berman:

So yes you can join directly on the website but I could tell you right now if you.

Nat Berman:

We've had like two sneak by where they actually just found the site and joined.

Nat Berman:

Not, not that it's hard to find but even on.

Nat Berman:

So it's like school.com brand built B R A N D B U I L T and then you could slash again and then about right.

Nat Berman:

And if you read the about section, you scroll down, it says, you know, schedule a free demo and that's a call with me personally and we have a one to one talk for a half hour.

Nat Berman:

I give you a demo, takes 10 minutes and then ask questions in the next 20 and usually most people will sign up either you know, on the line with me or you know, in the next day.

Nat Berman:

Or week or month, or I don't even care, like, whatever it is, so.

Nat Berman:

Or if you, if you look on my LinkedIn page, there's always links to setting, sending appointments with me.

Nat Berman:

It's very old school, man.

Nat Berman:

We don't mess around.

Nat Berman:

Like, it's not like, it's not like, hey, check out my newsletter and sign up for my course.

Nat Berman:

It's, it's not like that.

Nat Berman:

It's like, hey, we really want to make sure that people want to do this, that we're interested in them, that they're interested in us.

Nat Berman:

And like, I just, I think that's not.

Nat Berman:

There's not enough of that in the world anymore as far as I'm concerned.

Nat Berman:

There needs to be some exclusivity in the world.

Nat Berman:

And when you look at the community model moving forward, and you said it yourself, people are looking for real personal connection.

Nat Berman:

Well, my prediction, and this is what I'm literally betting my own livelihood and money on, is the fact that While platforms like LinkedIn or Instagram or Pinterest or anything, you know, whatever, it doesn't matter, anything with a billion users plus, those are platforms, in my opinion, to build your own, and they need to be embraced as such.

Nat Berman:

TikTok is a place for you to be seen to grow whatever it is you want to grow.

Nat Berman:

And I understand that LinkedIn in terms of a profit model for Microsoft, right?

Nat Berman:

Obviously their goal is to get as many people as possible to be on the platform for as much as possible.

Nat Berman:

But at the same time, it behooves them to also push and stress that, hey, this is a place where you can build your business.

Nat Berman:

This is a place where you can do all this kind of stuff.

Nat Berman:

And so what I see happening over the next decade really is a rise of these micro communities where you have your tribe, where you have found the people that you really want to be in contact with on a daily basis.

Nat Berman:

And so we're just doing that manually, you know, that's how I see it.

Nat Berman:

So, yeah, while we have these platforms with billions of users, I think the point of these platforms is to grow your own platform and that as much as they need users to be on there 24,7 to make their revenue, they should also be pushing the fact that, hey, this is a place for you to build your own home.

Nat Berman:

And that's why I think, and I'm betting on in the next 10, 15 years, that things like micro communities are going to be significant and you can essentially go to a place where you've got a thousand of your people and that's effectively what we're building.

Nat Berman:

But we're doing that manually.

Nat Berman:

One at a time, one conversation at a time, one member at a time.

Nat Berman:

It doesn't have to be through a newsletter or a course or any of that kind of stuff.

Nat Berman:

It's just flat out talking to people that are like you, that have similar goals, that want to be successful.

Nat Berman:

And that's what our community is really about.

Kelly Kennedy:

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

Kelly Kennedy:

I think that is the future.

Kelly Kennedy:

And you know, it's kind of the first year into it.

Kelly Kennedy:

Like I'm really seeing the growth of community right now.

Kelly Kennedy:

But yeah, I agree with you.

Kelly Kennedy:

I think, I think it is the future and I think you guys are on point to make that choice and I think it will be about how do you provide value at a cost that people can afford?

Kelly Kennedy:

Because like me and you both know, one on one coaching, as amazing as it is, there's no way to do it cost effectively.

Nat Berman:

That's, that's one of the things that I think that like people can't really match in terms of what we're doing is the fact that, hey, we've got four group coaching calls a week and it's like under 200 bucks a month, right?

Nat Berman:

Yeah.

Nat Berman:

Whereas most coaching is, you know, three grand plus a month.

Kelly Kennedy:

Yeah, yeah.

Kelly Kennedy:

So how does like walk me through a group coaching session, like what do these typically look like?

Kelly Kennedy:

Obviously you're working with quite a few people.

Kelly Kennedy:

You said you well over 100 members.

Kelly Kennedy:

How do you even facilitate coaching in that type of scenario?

Kelly Kennedy:

What is the most effective way you've found to do it?

Nat Berman:

Sure.

Nat Berman:

So right now it's still, it's still very easy to manage.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

So technically, you know, there's 164 members, not all those members on every single call.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

Obviously not everybody can make it there.

Nat Berman:

You know, we run them at 1pm Eastern, Monday through Monday through Thursday.

Nat Berman:

One of the days it's at 12.

Nat Berman:

So on average we get somewhere between 15 and 20 participants.

Nat Berman:

And with a call that lasts an hour, that's ample time to answer questions.

Nat Berman:

All of our meetings are pretty much collaborative, QA oriented type meetings, but we do have a specific format and way of running each one.

Nat Berman:

So on Mondays I run meetings by myself and those are a lot more LinkedIn intense meetings.

Nat Berman:

Any questions you got on LinkedIn?

Nat Berman:

I don't like using the word expert, but I'm probably our resident guy who knows about LinkedIn pretty well.

Nat Berman:

And so that'll be focused on that.

Nat Berman:

Tuesdays we typically pick like a topic.

Nat Berman:

So this week for example, we picked the word persistence.

Nat Berman:

And so I started off going on like a 10 minute story about persistence and it winds up just getting into a lot of questions.

Nat Berman:

People sharing their own stories, own anecdotes.

Nat Berman:

Wednesdays are like, we call them community chat.

Nat Berman:

So Tuesdays and Wednesdays Darren and I host and Wednesday's, our last Wednesday call was very deep.

Nat Berman:

It wound up being very support group oriented.

Nat Berman:

Right.

Nat Berman:

But a lot of times they could be about philosophies in your own business or just questions.

Nat Berman:

Again, same thing.

Nat Berman:

Questions on LinkedIn, all that.

Nat Berman:

Thursdays, Darren runs those by himself and those are highly business oriented questions and topics.

Nat Berman:

So it could be scaling a business, acquiring a business, all the little, you know, ends that, that go along with running business at a small business level as well as a corporate level.

Nat Berman:

Darren's done both.

Nat Berman:

So yeah, that's kind of how we run the meetings.

Nat Berman:

And as it get, as it gets larger in scale, you know, we'll see.

Nat Berman:

We might do a format where it's like the first 10 people get their questions answered and everybody else is watching.

Nat Berman:

I don't really quite know what we'll do, but as of right now we just use zoom and everyone does the hand raise function and we get to everybody's questions.

Nat Berman:

And so far we haven't missed any questions, which has been great.

Nat Berman:

You know, an hour is usually enough.

Kelly Kennedy:

Wow.

Kelly Kennedy:

Wow, dude.

Kelly Kennedy:

Sounds like you've got it all figured out.

Kelly Kennedy:

And it sounds like you're going to be planning more content than most people, that's for sure.

Nat Berman:

One nice thing about four meetings is you got four hours of like reels and shorts that get chopped up.

Nat Berman:

Now I'm not going to go crazy.

Nat Berman:

I literally only post one a day on the Internet, even though I could schedule like 30, but I'm not going to do that.

Nat Berman:

I don't want to like overload my accounts.

Nat Berman:

But you know, maybe I should try it one day and see what would happen if I literally posted like 30 things.

Kelly Kennedy:

It really is trial and error.

Kelly Kennedy:

Let's figure out what works because I think all of us are playing in this playground trying to figure out, you know, not just with, you know, like, not just with you, with, with LinkedIn, with us, with Spotify and all these others trying to figure out like, what do they want?

Kelly Kennedy:

How do we get, how do we get them to promote us?

Nat Berman:

Yeah, I agree.

Kelly Kennedy:

Nat, this has been absolutely amazing.

Kelly Kennedy:

Thank you for spending some time with us and educating our listeners and I do wish you the best of luck.

Kelly Kennedy:

Dude, I love your LinkedIn.

Kelly Kennedy:

Don't quit you're.

Kelly Kennedy:

You're killing it.

Kelly Kennedy:

I love the shirts.

Kelly Kennedy:

They're so motivating.

Kelly Kennedy:

And if there's ever anything that we can do to support you, just let me know.

Nat Berman:

Vice versa, man.

Nat Berman:

Really appreciate you having me on.

Nat Berman:

Thanks a lot, Kelly.

Kelly Kennedy:

You're very welcome.

Kelly Kennedy:

Until next time, this has been the Business Development Podcast and we will catch you on the flip side.

with Kelly for consistency):

This has been the Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kennedy.

with Kelly for consistency):

business development firm in:

with Kelly for consistency):

His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development.

with Kelly for consistency):

The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your business development specialists.

with Kelly for consistency):

For more, we invite you to the website www.capitalbd.ca.

with Kelly for consistency):

see you next time on the Business Development Podcast.

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The Business Development Podcast
The Business Development Podcast is an award-winning show dedicated to entrepreneurs, executives, sales, and business development specialists.

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Kelly Kennedy